CX Goalkeeper with Naeem Arif – S1E33 is about CX in retail business

Release date: 02. August 2021

The CX Goalkeeper had a smart discussion with Naeem Arif

LinkedIn Headline: The CustomerFirst Enabler 🌟 Forbes Business Council – “Customer Experience” 🏆 Business strategies that deliver an amazing #CX #Retail #Hospitality #BusinessCoach #Mastermind #Accelerator #MWIT21

We discussed about:

  • Pressure on retail business before and during COVID-19 crisis
  • COVID-19 helped companies to reflect on how to be special
  • How to create a differentiator in your business and leverage existing ecosystem opportunities
  • Three tips on how to improve your business
  • Women in Tech: Understanding, recognizing, and celebrating the important roles, women are having in Tech

His book suggestion:

  • Seth Godin, Purple Cow: Transform Your Business by Being Remarkable
  • Gary Vaynerchuk, #askgaryvee One Entrepreneur’s Take on Leadership, Social Media, and Self-Awareness
  • Ian Golding, Customer What?

Naeem’s golden nugget:

“I’m going to say back with the the basic principle of customers customer first, which was the book I loved the most. In customer first, we talked about the fact that customers are the lifeblood of your business. And without customers, you don’t have a business. So always put the customer first in everything you do. And in that way you can ensure success for your business”

“Customers are the lifeblood of your business. And without customers, you don’t have a business. So always put the customer first in everything you do. And in that way you can ensure success for your business.” @NaeemArif_ on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast

How to contact Naeem:

Thank you, Naeem!

#customerexperience #customerfirst #cx #cxgoalkeeper #retail


Gregorio Uglioni 0:02
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the CX goalkeeper podcast. Your host, Gregorio Uglioni. Will have smart discussion with experts, thought leaders and friends on customer experience, transformation, innovation and leadership. I hope you will enjoy the next episode.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a big, big pleasure to have Naeem Arif with me. Hi, Naeem.

Naeem Arif 0:30
Hi, Greg, how are you?

Gregorio Uglioni 0:32
Thank you very much. It’s really a big pleasure. And I can always say I feel well, if I’m speaking with you, because it means in the next half an hour, I will learn a lot, a ton of information, a ton of insight from Naeem is the real Naeem here with me. Extremely happy to have you here. Because you’re so busy, you are doing everything you are involved everywhere. But you find time for that and really thankful. Before we start discussing, perhaps for the few people that don’t know you, could you please introduce yourself?

Naeem Arif 1:05
Yeah, of course. Thank you. So first of all, thank you for inviting me it is it is an honor for me to be on your podcast. So my name is Naeem. Arif, I’m based here in England in well, formally in Europe, obviously, we left Europe recently. So I’m I’m known as a customer first enabler, and that’s a term that we use ever since my book customer first was published nearly six years ago. I don’t classify myself purely as a CX consultant, I classify myself, classify myself as a business transformation consultant. Traditionally, I’ve worked with a lot of big companies in business transformation. So people like British Airways, Jaguar Land Rover, the BBC, some big clients like that around the world. More recently, I’ve been working a lot more with smaller clients. And I’ve been specializing in retail and hospitality sector. And I’ve really been enjoying the fact that you can speak to the business owner direct, maybe they’ve got a small team of 5678 people, and you can really get into some business change, and inevitably CX and thinking about the customer is my main weapon that I want to help them with.

Gregorio Uglioni 2:18
Thank you, Naeem, um, this is a great introduction. And I fully agree with you business transformation, if it doesn’t start from from the customer, then it’s not a transformation nowadays. And as you said, you are an expert in retail, and I would like to chat with you today about a retail business. We know everybody COVID-19, everything change what is happening in in the retail business.

Naeem Arif 2:43
So it’s been a very tricky, two, three years. So I’ll go back a little bit further than COVID, we had a lot of talk about the crisis on the high street. So big brands, like toys, RS Mothercare, a lot of big brands started going out of business two or three years ago. And then from there, as particularly in the UK, we had Brexit and there was an impact there. And on top of that, the trifecta the third thing, which hit us straight away COVID-19. So it has been a really tough time for retail and hospitality businesses for the high street, if I talk about it in that respect. But, you know, now we are coming out of this time, I think it’s also been a good 12 months for businesses and business owners to really get to grips with some of the things that maybe before they were not doing. And I’ll give you a couple of examples. One of the things is we all you know, we’re on technology here, we all are ready to use Amazon to order things. A lot of businesses were maybe not ready with a digital presence. So COVID-19 has forced them because customers couldn’t come to their business. And whether that was a retail business or a hotel or restaurant. So I think COVID-19 has forced that. And I think also COVID-19 has given people a chance to take their foot off the accelerator and stop and really think about a few things like, how can we be more special? And how can we look after our customers better? So I think whilst it has been tough people have lost business. I think it’s also a good time. And a lot of businesses have reflected and are going to progress their business as we come out of the COVID crisis.

Gregorio Uglioni 4:27
Thank you for the for this introduction. And I think what what you’re saying is it’s really key and always possible that this business differentiate itself to create this interest that customers are going to this business and not to the other business. And as you’re saying COVID is bring, let’s say this move fast forward. And also in the E commerce world, everything change what is happening in the E commerce world.

Naeem Arif 4:54
So from an e-commerce point of view, again, some of the bigger brands we’re we’re very ready for ecommerce, you know, you know, some of my favorite brands like Nike and Amazon and Apple, they were always ready for for E commerce. But what I think we’ve seen recently, particularly in retail is, if I go into the fact that I think a lot more people are looking for the niche brands, the personalized customer service, the smaller player, and it’s now become very easy for that smaller player to also offer a fully ecommerce solution. You know, whether they go with the websites, whether they go with the WordPress site, or something like that, or whether they go with just a social media platform, providing an E commerce solution has become a lot easier for people to do, and people are doing it. And I think importantly, what we’re seeing is we’re seeing the fact that customers are now no longer looking at a business and saying, that is a online retailer, or that is a in person retailer, customers are now expecting you to be both. And from my point of view, you know, and from your point of view, I’m sure we will, we will talk about having a unified customer experience. And I think the retailers aren’t getting it as well, you know, they’re understanding that, and particularly e commerce, digital commerce, whatever we want to call it, I think a lot more businesses are getting ready and are ready to deliver that. And from the other side, the demand is there from customers, as we had throughout COVID, a lot more people are now used to buying their shopping online, the groceries, and some of the traditional things, which I always felt people wouldn’t buy online. So we are a carpet and flooring retailer. And I always felt people wanting to come and touch the product. But we have seen our online business go from 15% to nearly 32% Over the last 18 months. And despite coming out of COVID that trend isn’t going back to 15%. A lot of people have now got the experience and the confidence to shop online. So ecommerce, yeah, we’ve definitely had a watershed, we I think a lot of people are ready to buy, and a lot of people are ready to provide a service for E commerce in retail and in hospitality.

Gregorio Uglioni 7:16
That’s, that’s very nice. And I think exactly what you’re saying it’s the key, we are going through this. People use use the name phygital experiences, physical and digital experiences. And therefore also in retail, it’s extremely important to drive this from a customer point of view. What’s your view on customer experience in retail?

Naeem Arif 7:40
I think it’s it’s key. You know, one of the things I always say is that, particularly with the you know, before COVID, when we have the opening up of the global marketplace, you know, any product, let’s take let’s take a pen, right, any product, we can always buy it cheaper, faster, from somewhere else. So ever since we’ve had that opening of the global marketplace, you know, over the last 510 1520 years, it was no longer a question of what can I sell because customers now have a choice they can buy from so many different people. So it was now a case of how can I make you feel. And you know, some industries, if you are coming to buy a product, you are a salesperson was very much ready to give you the technical features and benefits of a product. Whereas now people do that research before they go and buy. So now it is all about that fast, that friendly and that fun experience. So can I come in? And can I buy what I want to buy quickly? Can you be nice and friendly? Because I can go somewhere else someone can be friendly somewhere else? And can you make it a bit of fun? Alright, can you give me something because shopping is more of a social experience now. You know, people go shopping on a Saturday or whatever it is to unwind, you know, and I used to think I mean, I’m 47. Now I used to think when I was little I used to hate going shopping for groceries and all the other things. But if I can now I have a shopping experience, which is a little bit of fun. You know, my kids can have a bit of Wi Fi for free. Or there can be some offers or something going on which in makes it more enjoyable for me the music you’re playing. And I think that is that complete experience which retailers I think are doing very well. And particularly hospitality businesses, they’re also catching up. So I think customer service is evolving. I think you’ll continue to evolve. And I think retailers and hospitality businesses are usually at the forefront of this. And that’s why I like working with them because you see some very energetic people, some friendly people and some fun people.

Gregorio Uglioni 9:50
Then it means it’s exactly the same like in the customer experience community. To have by side. What you’re saying it’s key you you’re using Example of yourself going to buy something with your family, and you have different needs, you spoke about music, you spoke about Wi Fi. But on the other side, I was speaking with somebody a bit older than us. And they said, in COVID, it was my the only opportunity that I had to go out to shop for a grocery or something different to see other people, perhaps we are not speaking together, but at least is the feeling of being part of something bigger than only being at home, and then doing my stuff buying something. And you use also the example of the pen. And I think there are, as you said, this is bit more than only the product itself. And my next question would be also all around the customer service. Let’s take the pen example you buy depends, you get them extremely quickly, quicker to extremely cheap, but the pen are green, and you wanted to the blue one, and therefore it started the customer service piece. How can you ensure to have a right balance on customer service in retail?

Naeem Arif 11:06
Okay, so if I understand the question, right, let’s, let’s take that example. You know, an often we have problems with a customer, in terms of, I’ll say a complaint. And you know, there’s a problem because we haven’t met their expectations. I think this is where you’re going. Right? Okay. So this is a very frequent thing in retail. And it’s very frequent thing in hospitality, restaurant business, hotels. And I would say two things, I would say the big challenge is that if you have that mis alignment of expectations, it’s both of your fault, the retailer and the customer. It’s never one person’s fault. Because maybe we didn’t communicate clearly. Maybe they didn’t understand, maybe didn’t ask the right questions, maybe we didn’t ask the right question. So I’d always say there’s got to be an understanding or acceptance, it’s both of your fault. And what I always say is that you have to then, you know, apologize, explain, I’m sorry, this has happened, and then work out how we’re going to make it better. This is a big thing for me in retail and hospitality. It’s very, I see both sides of the of the coin, where I see customers who expect a retailer or a restaurant to basically bend over backwards to please them for their specific needs. So on the one side, we have that high level of expectation. And on the other side, we have the retailer who is you know, working hard, and you know, has maybe money invested in their business. And they’re thinking, you know, I’m trying to I’m doing the best I can for you, but you as a customer are still complaining. So you know, the two things are often not meeting. And for me, it’s a problem for both people. But as the retailer, the most important thing you have to do is work out how we’re going to make it better. And I think often that doesn’t happen. Something that we do, particularly our retail business is that we have a one of our mantras. One of our sayings is that we want to turn a complaining customer into a retained customer. So turn a complainer into retainer. And if you can do that, if you can listen to your customer and understand what the problem is, you can often achieve that. And I’ll say one more thing. Often the customer has made the mistake in terms of they didn’t ask the right question or give the right information. Now, they are now frustrated, they’ve spent 100 pounds 1000 pounds on a product. And they’re upset because they feel like I’ve got no money. And they already expect that you’re not going to help them. So I always say let them explain what they have to say. I’m sorry, this has happened. Now let’s work out how we’re going to get it better for you. And I think if you can do that with your customers, you’ll find often customers will either meet you halfway or you can pay some more money. But you’ve got to give them a chance first to say what they have to say. And now I’m gonna give you a chance to see if I’ve answered your question.

Gregorio Uglioni 14:08
You have completely as as usual and and I think elaborating on what you’re saying. You’re covering two extremely important topics one is being competent from from a retailer point of view, being able to solve the issue, but on the other side also being empathetic, meaning I understand the customer perhaps the customer was not able to phrase exactly what was the issue because they didn’t understood that and you’ve if you can combine being competent together with being empathetic, I think you have quite a go to receive to success because then you can retain the customer and you can grow your customer base. Therefore fully understood and you confirmed also that we are thinking in a similar way. We spoke a bit ilevel about customer experience. We are speaking with you we spoke now about customer service And as you said at the beginning, we have quite a lot of changes. And what is changing in customer experience related into the retailing retail business.

Naeem Arif 15:11
I think, again, we’re going to come back to Amazon here, people expect things faster, expects things quicker, expect things in multiple colors. And again, as a retailer, we won’t talk about hospitality for this example, as a retail, it’s difficult for you to have the Amazon capacity. So one of the things I recommend to people is, you know, use a service provider, a fulfillment partner, like an Amazon, or, you know, there are other people like Groupon, there are others, the providers as well try and use someone like that, where you can have access to more products, you can have access quickly, without having to have the overhead the cost of having to carry all that stock, or those product lines, in your in your business. And also partnerships, I think are really important. If you can work well with a service provider, which can work well with partner companies, then I think you can deliver a bigger service. And customers are now very keen, I think, to look to go to one person and get everything done. So for instance, again, we’re a flooring retailer. So we have partners who deliver furniture, who do curtains and do to paint. So if a customer comes to me and says, you know, as we’re talking and they’re saying, Oh, we’re having a house renovated, then I can easily help them get access to other service providers. And what they’re finding there is that we’re making their life easier. And we’re giving them a level of service, which is us being helpful to them. And they’re enjoying that. So I think from a service point of view, people are used to going to one place and getting access to long things. I think, as I said before, they want to fast service, and they want a friendly service, and they want to be treated well. They don’t want to be treated like you know, we’re just here to take your money. You want to be treated like we respect you. And I think that’s very, very relevant today.

Gregorio Uglioni 17:10
If I’m understanding Well, again, you are touching two important topics. On one side, it’s something like creating an ecosystem that you can offer to the customer, everything he or she needs. And and this is key. You said Amazon is one big, big example. But perhaps could you a bit elaborate, how did you select your partners, in order to really offer let’s the experience that customers are expecting, and that you are also willing to offer to your to your customers.

Naeem Arif 17:42
Okay, so that’s a simple one, in a way, because it comes down to branding. The way I look at it is I look at it that a customer doesn’t want to walk around the High Street and visit 20 different places to find the good product and a good service. We we expect our brand to represent good quality and good service. So when we are looking at Partners, we’re also looking at partners who respect that and offer the same branding. Because if I was to, if I was to offer an excellent service, good prices and quality and everything else. And if I passed that customer on to my colleague or my partner, who didn’t, then that will reflect badly on me. So branding, in terms of being able to deliver the same quality service is what I look at in order to select partners to work with and to collaborate with.

Gregorio Uglioni 18:33
Thank you Naeem. And perhaps so we have a big big experts here. Do you have oder tips that you want to share with the audience On CX retail?

Naeem Arif 18:44
Yeah, I mean, I would say if I was to give you say three, the three things I will say is that if you want to be successful, from a customer experience point of view, you want to make money, deliver a great customer experience, that’s obvious. We’ve asked to give you three things. For a retail hospitality business, the three things I would say is, first of all, make it very easy for the customer to buy. You know, if you’re a restaurant don’t have a complicated menu, if you’re a retail business online or in person, don’t make it complicated for customers Advice number one would be make it easy for customers to to sell. And number two, realize that the customers aren’t here to queue up. And the customers aren’t here to go through some complicated process. And some be tricked into paying more money or being caught out. So you know, think from the customer’s point of view, obviously think customer first. And the third thing I’m gonna say, which is really, it’s a bit strange, but when you understand what it means deeply, I think it will it will make all the sense, which is we are not here to sell. We are here to provide customer service. And that means that if someone comes in, they have a problem. We’re here to help them. And because we’re going to be helpful we’re going to buy from us. But the minute we start thinking that we’re here to sell, then I’ve seen it myself, your salespeople become very fixated on chasing commission. And when the customer is not going to buy today, they become you know, uninterested. So remind your people, that all of us be the person on the door, the receptionist, the delivery driver, whatever it is, we’re all here to help the customer. And if we’re all here to help the customer, automatically, that customer will buy, and they’ll recommend us. And that’s, that’s what we want to achieve, I think. So that would be my three things I would suggest to give a great experience in retail and hospitality.

Gregorio Uglioni 20:41
And I think these are outstanding tips and fulfilling customer needs not only selling something to somebody, but it’s really understand and understand the customer and create a relationship. It’s what what you’re saying to us. And no

Naeem Arif 20:55
one thing more I want to say that customer experience, you know, I’m a CCXP. You know, you’re qualified as well. Some people think about it too deeply. At the core, it’s about helping the customer. And if you do the simple things, basic things, right? You’ll be successful, you don’t have to worry about being really clever and really complicated. Do the basics, right? And everything will work.

Gregorio Uglioni 21:23
I have my next tweet now. Thank you Naeem. Joke by side, I think, exactly. To achieve what you’re saying. One, one big topic is also diversity in the company. And and I know that you are extremely active, and you are now also working together women in tech. Could you please elaborate a bit what they are doing? And also from your point of view why it’s important?

Naeem Arif 21:50
Yeah, sure. So obviously, I’ve worked in a lot of technology transformation projects. And in that time, I sort of felt that whilst I worked with a lot of women, I didn’t feel that many of them were in senior leadership positions. So three years ago, I used to mentor a lot of women project managers, who found it tough, you know, in a male dominated environment. So three years ago, an organization called Women in Tech approached me and asked me if I could help identify female leaders, tall females who deserve recognition. So I got involved with women in tech. Three years ago, one of my mentees won the main award on the on the first award, and I was so pleased for her. And it’s helped her career massively. So women in tech is all about understanding and recognizing, and importantly, celebrating the fact that women have played an important part in technology, roles in technology projects, and will continue to do so. And we’re hoping to highlight and showcase them more and more. And it’s an annual awards, celebration, backed up with mentoring and other things. And I’m an ambassador for organization, I don’t get paid any money from the organization, I’m there to support and try and showcase that. This is this is an option. This is something that we should all be supporting.

Gregorio Uglioni 23:21
Thank you very much, Naeem, I think this is really important what you’re saying, if somebody from the audience would be interested to get additional information, is there a web page or contact person

Naeem Arif 23:32
there is so these women in tech awards, you can have a look, but we’ll put my contact details at the end of the podcast and they’re welcome to contact me as well. I’ll happily help them and signpost them in which way they can go and get some support. And also, if people want to support that organization, we are looking for women mentors, to come and speak and to share their experiences and inspire more females of the future.

Gregorio Uglioni 23:59
Thank you very much. Naeem. I hope that some people will contact you because it’s something that we really need to do. And we see also the advantages and the benefits of doing of working in such organizations. My last question, and this is something that I need to ask and it’s a strange question, customer experience one, customer experience two customer experience three, it will be a customer experience four or are you going to change the name?

Naeem Arif 24:28
so we will have a four and a five and a six. So that the project started I’ll share with your your listeners a project started. I met Ian Golding for the first time and we sat down and you know I’ve written a lot of books. And Ian had written his book customer customer who customer watch or customer who II and sorry, I apologize. I got the name wrong. Customer one that’s right. So in wrote his book, and we were talking and I was telling him about the He publishes I use and how easy it was. And basically, from that conversation, he and I came up with the idea, you know, not enough people like yourself, who have great insights and customer experience, we’re maybe giving being given a platform to share that insights. You know, you can be working for a very small company or a very small organization, but you can understand customer experience in a way. So people, other people can’t. So that’s where the idea came from. We did the first book, we then did the second book, we did the third book, and thank you very much of contributing to that, we will be doing other books. And we’ll always look, to not make any money out of the book, but help people showcase and show their experience and hopefully bring into a global world, a global marketplace. But yeah, it’s a great, great project to be involved in. And there will be a CX four and a CX five, for sure.

Gregorio Uglioni 25:59
Nice, and I will apply for them. Thank you Naeem. Now, now it’s time to learn a bit more about your as you said you’re extremely active with all your activities, women in tech, the customer experience books and so on, how can you ensure to have a satisfactory work life balance?

Naeem Arif 26:19
I think it’s very interesting, because I have children who are you know, from the age of 10, through 24, I have four children. It’s important to have the work like that work life balance to you three years ago, this is why I stopped working on big projects, I reduce that amount of work because I was working away a lot working as I do now. So I’m one of very few people who are consultant and practitioner. So from a consulting point of view, I only do two half days a week. Last year in the COVID crisis, at one stage, my mastermind group had 18 people at one time, it was too many, you know. So I’ve had to bring that back down to one group of eight. So that means I can do a couple of half days there, I can do sometime in the retail business. And of course, I can have two days off in the week, which I don’t use the news to do. So I am managing to get a gay a day spent with the family. And I’m also managing to get out and play golf and watch the football and other things. So it’s actually not as bad as it seems. It’s like, you know, when you want to achieve a few things, you have to balance the time. And if family is also important, then you have to give them time as well. So all about putting things in their little box in their little places. And then we can do things we can do great things.

Gregorio Uglioni 27:40
I fully agree with you. And as I’m always saying my battery charger is my family and therefore I need to spend time or to invest time with them. And therefore I fully agree with you. Is there perhaps a book that you will say I would like to recommend to the audience. And we Please don’t mention customer experience three because that’s I will do that.

Naeem Arif 28:03
Okay, so I’m gonna say something really strange. And I’m gonna say, I love reading Seth Godin, Seth Godin’s work. And the two books, which I really enjoyed. One was his Purple Cow book, which had a very simple concept, and you can have a look on that. And you know, that I think it’s a really, really simple concept, but very, very powerful. And the other one, I enjoyed reading a lot, and I go back to it a lot is the #AskGaryVee book, where he has the snippets from all of his series. And when I bought it, I bought the CDs as well. Still, there were CDs available. They were very good. And if you’ll permit me one more, Ian Golding’s book is fantastic. Even though I’ve got the name slightly wrong. The thing with Ian’s book is in talks on a very practical level. And the great thing he has is he has those little exercises in his book. So it’s great someone saying put together a customer profile or a customer journey map that Ian’s book actually makes you do it. So if anybody’s out there, and they want to look at customer experience for themselves or their business, or they want to learn about it, I think Ian’s book is fantastic. So you asked for one, I told you three there. Hopefully that’s okay.

Gregorio Uglioni 29:19
It’s a gift for the for the audience, because this two additional free books that you’re mentioning, and I know some of them and therefore I fully agree with you. And at the end if you if you named the book of Ian in the wrong way, you will get some negative points and I will get some positive points because I said that for the first time, right? Joke aside, Naeem if somebody would like to contact to connect with you what’s the best way?

Naeem Arif 29:49
So you can obviously connect with me on LinkedIn. You can email me at naeem at na or follow me on Twitter. Those are the three things I mainly do. I am on LinkedIn. Then I’m on Twitter at na consulting. Or you can email me and, you know, I’m very fortunate that things are things are going well for me, which means I always have time to speak to people. So I’m happy to share insights. And if I can help someone or connect them, I’ll be more than happy to do that. Great.

Gregorio Uglioni 30:18
Thank you very much. Now I’m and now we are coming to the last question. And this is Naeem Golden Nugget, it’s something that we discussed, or something new that you would leave to the audience.

Naeem Arif 30:29
Okay, so that’s quite quite a tough one there, Greg, that you’ve asked me to do. I think I’m gonna go back over something I said earlier. And I’m going to say back with the the basic principle of customers customer first, which was the book I loved the most. In customer first, we talked about the fact that customers are the lifeblood of your business. And without customers, you don’t have a business. So always put the customer first in everything you do. And that way you can ensure success for your business.

Gregorio Uglioni 31:00
Thank you very much. And as usual, I am not commenting your golden nugget because it’s Naeem golden nugget. It was really, really a big pleasure to have you on this show. Thank you very much Naeem.

Naeem Arif 31:13
Thank you, Greg for inviting me and I look forward to listen to the rest of the CX goalkeeper series because you’ve got some great speakers on I’ve been listening so far.

Gregorio Uglioni 31:21
Thank you very much name and also to the audience. It was a big pleasure to have Naeem on this show. I hope that you enjoyed the discussion as much as I did, because it’s really full of insights full of great inputs from Naeem and I closing Thank you very much. That’s me. Grazie Mille, arrivederci.

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