The CX infinite loop & the marriage of CX & EX with Santhakumaran A. – E34

Release date: 09. August 2021

CX Goalkeeper with Santhakumaran Atmalingam – S1E34 is about the CX infinite loop and the marriage of CX & EX. Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper

The CX Goalkeeper had a smart discussion with Santhakumaran Atmalingam

LinkedIn Headline: An Award Winning CX Specialist | Founder CX Expert Asia | Thinker 360 – Top 10 Global CX Influencer | Global Keynote Speaker | CX Awards Judge | ENGATI’s BUSINESS TRANSFORMATION-222 TOP influencers in 2022

In this episode YOU will learn:

  • What is the role of CX professionals and why it is like being BATMAN – How CX and astrology are linked
  • What is the CX infinite loop / masterplan
  • How to best design experiences and how to leverage ice creams to motivate teams
  • How to leverage KANO model, the 40% rule and the King to design experiences
  • The explanation of his very famous slide (the marriage between CX and EX linked to people, process and technology

… and much more

His book suggestion:

  • Outside-In, Kerry Bodine
  • Customer What? Ian Golding
  • Several motivational speeches of Tony Robbins

Santhakumaran’s golden nugget:

Take CX as a movie production and apply the same processes into your business: work hard to serve your customers at your best, instill it into everybody’s heart. We are here for customers. The customers are not the problem.

“Take CX as a movie production and apply the same processes into your business: work hard to serve your customers at your best, instil it into everybody’s heart. We are here for customers. They are not the problem” Santhakumaran on the CX Goalkeeper Show

How to contact Santhakumaran:

Thank you, Santha!

#customerexperience #leadership #cxgoalkeeper #cxasia #cxm


Gregorio Uglioni 0:03
Ladies and gentlemen, today is really, really a big pleasure to have Santha with me. Hi, Santha.

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 0:10
Hi, Greg, how are you?

Gregorio Uglioni 0:12
Thank you very much. I think if I can have a discussion with you about customer experience, and perhaps also about other topics, I think it will be an outstanding discussion. And therefore I am feeling very, very well, to be here with you. Thank you very much. So, in order to kick off the discussion, as usual, I’m asking the same question. Could you please introduce yourself?

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 0:38
Okay, my name is Santhakumaran. You can call me Santha. I’m from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, I think I think the whole world knows me shoe by now. I’m an Indian. We are the third fourth generation in Malaysia, Malaysian Indian. I’ve been in this line the last six, seven years, or sorry, I’ve been in training line since 2008. But I specialize in customer experiences. 2015 already six years, I do only customer experience. I don’t do anything else at the moment. Because you can see this is the future. This is the future I in any organization that to consulting work. I tell them that if you embark in customer experience transformational journey, you don’t have to worry about anything else, it will it will redirect your business in the right direction. So just focus on so I’m married, I have a daughter 10 years old and one wife. And life is good. We are in the second phase of lockdown in Asia with our boys are shooting skyrocket. So you’re managing somehow managing it in Asia. And thanks to the pandemic, otherwise, I wouldn’t know who’s Gregorio and I wouldn’t wouldn’t have created by name in the global arena. So somehow there’s a blessing in disguise. Gregorio back to you.

Gregorio Uglioni 1:55
Thank you very much, Santha, for your introduction and what you’re saying, I think it’s really real, because we have big issues with with COVID and Pandemic situation. But there are also some opportunities, and perhaps I would like to bid on a bit better understand, was Santa before the pandemic and we sent them after the pandemics for me Santa after the pandemics. It’s really an international keynote speaker speaking at old conferences, and really having great, great ideas in customer experience, and what I really, really like, it’s the way that you are explaining these topics, because on one side, you are explaining that in an extremely simple way that everybody can understand that you have great examples. And you have also these visuals that you’re sharing with the people and we will discuss afterwards about Batman that make that really tangible. Could you please elaborate a bit on that?

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 2:53
Okay, before the pandemic let me let me tell my story. I like to share the story what happened. I’m a trainer trainer consulting my game in Southeast Asia. I work in Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, and this is my turf. Then during the pandemic, what happened? They closed borders and we can’t do face to face training in Malaysia. Anyway. So lockdown, complete lockdown. And this March last year, I was devastated initially, that it took two days off, it was nice, you have 24 hours with your family was nice, then you still have to make a living. So then I realize he the local door is open and there’s a saying when one door closes, another one will open. So then I explored the possibility why don’t I go global. Now the global since the global flood gate is open. So I put my name out there I started to network with my contacts in my LinkedIn. And I connected with Mark Hamill outsell global and he gave me the opportunity to become the judge for North American customer centricity award. And of course, you just did one opportunity to open the door for you. And I really grabbed that opportunity created my name and I realized when I mixed with the global trainers speakers, I realized my knowledge was at par with them. So is it we all talk the same language and I find that it not bad, I underestimated myself, then I realize not where my knowledge is at par with them. Then I told my wife, let’s do it. Let’s go global let’s let’s put the cart out there you leave only once. So go for it men are holding back then. From there, I started to get a lot of opportunities. I speak globally. And I run a lot of master classes, a lot of trainings. So I have hands on experience training more than 200 Over companies in customer experience transformation and also I’ve trained easily about 2000 Plus participants in my training so I have a lot of experience in doing this. So some some of my junior trainers will ask how are you so confident? I say if you’re standing They’re in front of the classroom is my floor and the champion. If you’re sitting in front of me, you can be the CEO, I bet you don’t know what I know. So I’m not afraid of doing this. Let’s do it, man. So even I’m in global arena now. I’m like, if I’m there, I’m speaking, I have that confident that I can do this. So that keeps me going.

Gregorio Uglioni 5:23
Yes, and you’re doing that really very, very well. And therefore I fully understand and what you’re saying it’s really important. Let’s try if it works, I will continue if it doesn’t work, then I stop and may ask about your Batman behind you.

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 5:40
Okay, what I realized is, I joined this leadership program somewhere in 2008. So during this is a six month program, Mike, my trainer gave me that he free me as you’re a batman. I asked why you don’t like to come in front. You’re at the batman. When people need you. You come you solve the problem. Yeah, go to the batman. You will your your character suits well to become a batman or realize that in my training, I transformed the entire organization. My name will never come out anywhere in the newspaper, but the organization will have a full blown TV ad advertisement, press release and a retiree less Okay, I think I’m the bad man. And I’m happy doing it. How my mindset works is that people are paying me to have fun with the with the employees. So I go I have fun. I train them I transform the organization I come on and it’s nice to see they’re moving in the in the customer centricity direction. So that’s what I do.

Gregorio Uglioni 6:43
Thank you very much. And if we are looking at your outstanding CV, then you are also mentioning that you are an expert in astrology. What astrology and customer experience are they can match? Is it possible

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 6:59
initially I’m a spiritual researcher, I started this very young somewhere at age 16 17 18. I started with Jose Silva I found this book in my house my brother’s book, I read the entire book when I was 17 years old then I went into mind science so I’ve been studying a lot and my degrees in marketing we studied about consumer behavior why people behaving in certain ways and then come out and your work then you you find it hard to understand people especially when you’re married so you want to understand your wife so I further did my my certifications in hypnotherapy is past life regression, tell you psychics so many psychic stuff, then I still can’t find answers. I did numerology and I am pumped into astrology. Astrology is the ancient Hindu science. Where based on the birthday, but time and birthplace you can chart the person’s life from birth to death, even you can calculate exactly when this person is going to pass on, when this person is going to get married, when this person going to get a job, and when this person is going to lose a job. So it’s quite interesting, I think it will be very valuable for insurance company, if they can know the insurer when this person going to die. Exactly. So they know they can calculate the risk better. So I’ve not come to that stage, maybe one day we can develop a software for them. Why not?

Gregorio Uglioni 8:21
That’s very interesting. When you were mentioning that understanding people, do you have also the answer why, for example, my wife is so often nervous, or…..

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 8:33
Yep. People have high time, low time downtime, sometimes they are emotional, sometimes they are not emotional. Let me share a little bit about the astrological chart. So there are 12 houses in boxes from 12 houses, when the moon will be transiting from one box to another box another one house to another house in two and a half days. So to complete one cycle is 28 days. So whenever your your own house is first house, and whenever Moon is crossing the eighth house, you will have a lot of problems in your life for the two and half days. All the problems that you’re going to face within that one month you will face in the two three days. So you know during this period, you don’t do so many things just keep quiet lay low. And and same goes to business. Same goes to business you can you can notice if you ended up one of my my friend is doing a PhD in astrology. He’s studying the stock market correlation between astrology and stock market planetary movement. And he realized whenever there’s full moon, Dark Moon and Eclipse, the stock market will be shaken a bit. He has like 2030 years of data collected. So I’ve not gone to that level but something I want to explore is my retirement plan. So that’s

Gregorio Uglioni 9:47
very nice. And I think perhaps you can develop also a theory around among between astrology and customer experience. In the customer experience words. I think you are sharing always one One great example to start the discussion and to kick off the the customer the understanding about customer experience in this your see it’s an infinite loop with with the car example, could you please share that with the with the audience?

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 10:20
Yeah, I always start with customer experience infinite loop where that is the I will call it the master plan of customer experience, where we will define start with marketing, marketing, it’s always product development, social media, you know, brand and calm PR everything comes under marketing, then we will have the sales department any organization this will be the setting sales department. And from sales we it will move towards finance will will get involved in issuing invoice following up payment and everything. Then, let me give you an example. Let’s say you’re buying a car. My daughter is seven years old, sorry, 10 years old. I don’t have a need to buy a car for her right now. And when she said turns 17 I bet she will ask for a Camry my daughter. So at that in seven years time, I’ll have a need to buy a car for my daughter, right. So what I’ll do if 20 years back, we have to go showroom off the showroom to collect brochures. And today we don’t do that anymore. Everything is in your mobile phone. We look for information on mobile phone. And in seven years to come. Seven years to come probably I just need to put a virtual reality and I can test drive all the cars and then 80% of the time if I’m going to a brand and walking to a showroom to test the car. Pretty much I’ve already made my mind that I’m going with this car. So in the future is going to be once I walk into the showroom I will I will share this with my clients that the journey starts from my house is called an oppose gym pretty bad gym. It will take me like 45 minutes in the distance could be like 10 kilometers may take me half an hour 45 minutes to reach gym and difficult to get cup of hot sun is always hot here in Malaysia hot sun Yeah, to work with perspiring and upward so for the client, the journey starts upon the customer enters their premise their outlet, but for me the journey starts from my home from home. So once I’m there, how you treat me the most you can get you can offer me a glass of water to drink to come down come down, it’s not happening at the moment. So then from there, I’m going to choose the car I’m going to buy the English and what will happen is they’ll promise to deliver the country days and after three weeks when you call them they will ask this Mr. Santos this. So there’s always a broken link between production and also the sales so they don’t have sales doesn’t have 360 degrees on the production capability. Okay, there’s a broken link. And once you get the car and my daughter will be the judges going to drive the car around and she’s going to give me a feedback the car school not good. And I’m going to of course after two three months you have to service the car. So that involves after sale service, you have to bring it to the service center the pricing or the giving any discount and based on my entire experience from the moment I had a need to buy the car until I got the car my driver my daughter’s driving around I service the car. And if the experience is good, I’m going to recommend your brand around if the experience is not good. I’m still I’m not going to recommend I’m going to talk about in my social media. So what happens is there are a lot of broken links or a lot of pain points along the way you can see marketing and sales there’s always a huge broken link because marketing be focused on marketing sales will focus on sales and operation is completely clueless what is happening after sales service. And after sales service completely clueless what the salesman is selling about the car. Right. So when we do this infinite loop will show my client the complete framework of customer experience, they can see straight away okay, these are the broken links and how to integrate the cross functional departments to create a seamless experience for our customer this is where the journey starts. So in order to do that, you have two ways one is inside out as how we always do the I call it the engineering thinking the process thinking we always focus on coming from Asia we have Korean and Japanese here and it’s very much process orientated. But in CX is the other way around we want to get the feedback from customer customer first customer is the center of your design. Then we design the entire loop. So this is what will then from there we find out the pain point the whole consulting work.

Gregorio Uglioni 14:54
I think this is a great start to show different customer expectation which was So what the company thinks and and I think this is really a great example to start and what you’re also sharing in your presentation that I think it’s really key. And it’s not always discussed as it should. It’s about designing you showed your example of the ice cream bringing your teams to the to the ice cream and then getting to the ice cream and redesigning this experience, Sara time. Could you elaborate a bit? How did you create this procedure in order to make also understandable how to design experiences for the customers?

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 15:34
Yes, I always believe in creating an experiential training. Learn by Doing we are done. It’s very hard to lectures to show us the possibilities so it’s always by learn by doing. So, early stage of my training, I find it very difficult to explain about customer experience to my participants. Then what do you what I did okay, let’s go for ice cream. Took the entire class out to Baskin Robbins, had ice cream. We came back to the so the journey starts from the training center. We took the electric bars we went to the mall shopping mall. Then we look for Baskin Robbins. But the moment we reached Baskin Robbins, what happened? They didn’t get that warm welcome from Baskin Robbins. We don’t get the Starbucks welcome from Baskin Robbins, I mean, sorry for the brand disease invasion, it could be a rackets, but for lending purposes. So But for that, matter of fact, they are selling ice cream, they should be very Mickey Mouse head with lights and welcoming people with ice cream welcome, which we didn’t get to the girls at the counter for their arms and looking at see if you can read their mind voice it will be telling don’t come I’m not interested to serve you. That’s the message we got. But yet, their ice cream is very good. I got no complaint over there. So once you’re there. So what happened when they converted this experience into a customer journey map. You can see upon arrival to Baskin Robbins, the emotion level just went down negative seven, negative eight, so people don’t like that first touch point with the outlet. Then to choose the ice cream, they have varieties of ice cream at age of 46 Your eyesight will give me and you’ll find it hard to read that small tagging. Alright, fine. And then upon buying your favorite ice cream at Baskin Robbins always have these toppings, chocolate toppings, chocolate, rice, and all that which the counter goes data recommend also another pain point. And then they have a lot of promotions, what they’ll do is just leave the promotions on top of the counter, you’ll figure it out. You’ll figure it out. So there’s another pain point. Okay, then you get the ice cream, of course, your graph goes up to positive 10 You’re so happy. It ice cream is very nice and everything and this is a shopping mall where they don’t have a sink to wash your hand. Okay, after eating the ice cream, you have to walk all the way to the public restroom to wash your hand and come back. So I will I will share the scenario where put your customers in your shoes when let’s say this is a single mom with two kids, two years old and one year old. The one year also the prime and three years is running around and a handful of ice creams. He has to take them go to the public washroom wash their hand and continue veggie. Why not you’ll build a small sink in the outlet where your customers can wash their hand. So these are the little little things. It’s not a big deal. Literally two things, which is annoying your customers which Baskin Robbins can’t see because they were never trained to see that. Okay, so I will share this analogy where it’s like, you can’t see your own children being naughty. But you can see your neighbor’s children being naughty. It’s the same analogy once you’re so used to seeing your own outlet in such a way you think everything is fine business is coming in I got no issues, you assume your customers are happy until you talk to them you ask them really and they will tell you which part they are not really happy. So that is what we need to do. So once what sorry. So after so once I put them in a customer’s shoe experience what your customers are going for. Then I’ll go into their company’s journey map where they can straightaway relate and I will tell them your company is genuine don’t give me a political correct answer. I don’t want to see a political graph give me the actual so they will get it that okay let me put the customers in at first please

Gregorio Uglioni 19:34
thank you Santha this this was really a great example to make that understandable and as you’re saying there are small details that can really change the complete experience and how the shop deal with the customer and allow the customers and feelings interacting interacting with them with with with ask him I think I opted to take paid you with all the feedbacks that you are giving to the basket basket Robbins For the for the ice cream because if they would improve that, then sales would also increase the second job by side. You showed also this example that you start designing the experience and then they create your students create an experience. And then at the end, you ask please now create his experience for the king. Could you explain why did you go through this process?

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 20:27
Okay, I will do at the design stage design stage, once the design they come with the idea. And the prototype stage, what I’ll do, I’ll do three levels because prior to specialize in customer experience, I do conduct negotiation skills training. So we teach them to negotiate three times. So I use the same principle in your design, design three times up, I don’t tell them first time you design what you want to design. Based on your customers finding your root cause analysis, your company’s problem and everything. They’ll come up with a beautiful design, then I’ll send them for a tea break Coffee Break. After the coffee break, I will share with them Kano model if your favorite Kano model is a Six Sigma tool. So I’ll show it with them Kano model and I will ask them a question, do you think you’re at your best or you have another any other room for improvement? Normally, there’s room for improvement and Okay, so I showed them the Kano model. And they that is when they’ll come up with out of the box ideas, they come up with auto box it is oh, this is quite interesting, okay, let put that idea, then they’ll present they’ll do the teaching again, and then go for another coffee break or lunch break. And after the lunch break, I’ll come I’ll bring them back, I’ll share this analogy of you know, US Navy Seal, the other toughest soldiers in the world. So they have this 40% rule. 40% rule is, the moment you think your brain tells you that you’re done. No more, I can’t even lift a finger, you are only at 40% of your performance, you have another 60% reserve energy, okay, so I will use this analogy, then they will be like puzzles, and I will tell them okay with the same design. And we have King in our country. So tomorrow, if you’re getting an email from the palace, today at 4pm, four o’clock, that tomorrow morning, 10 o’clock, the king is walking into your outlet, what’s going to be different, that is when they will bring the actual ideas out, because they want to serve the king, red carpets, so many things to see oh will come and open the door window and everything alright, fine, then present the design, I will tell take your CEO out of the equation, he doesn’t need to they to open need to be there to open the main glass door. And also remove the red cap and remain the rest of it for your customers. Because the analogy of customer is skin. This is the real meaning of customer a skin. When you design a solution, you’re designing it for the key not for another customer. So they will get it straight. And normally the solution will be super fantastic. That’s my experience. So it works on the other three layers of designing is always the best.

Gregorio Uglioni 23:14
We already also discussed this topic about the customer is king, I complained. Or I said not all the customer thinks but you explained very well also in this dis time, that it’s only the design of the experience, then you need still need to decide which investment which budgets you have in order to create the experience. But at the end the expectation of the customer are quite high And you should we should strive to meet them. is this Correct?

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 23:40
Yes, yes, exactly.

Gregorio Uglioni 23:44
What what your what I really like also, it’s when you started sharing this light that let’s I would say went viral. And it was this is interesting overview. And in the middle. For the people listening to the podcast, you don’t need to see this slide because at the end is extremely simple. But we acquired a lot of wisdom behind that. In the middle you have the marriage between customer experience and employee experience. And around that you have a well known technology process and people and technology enable enabling process and people Santa could you please explain this slide because this is mind blowing for everybody in customer experience was?

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 24:29
Okay. Any business Of course customer first customer first. And in order to create a great experience to your customers. You have to have great employees. Okay, in my workshop, what I’ll do, I’ll open multimeter I’ll ask this one question. What comes to your mind when I mentioned the word customer? You see the first word will be problem. Customers are nasty customers. Not good. They weren’t profit. So many bad words in there. it, and then I will tell them alright, it’s quite interesting to see what’s running in your mind at a very early stage, how can you how possibly you can provide a good service to your customer with the mindset of your customers or problem? It doesn’t tell you so you’re not doing it wholeheartedly, say to me they can see. Okay. Right. And from there, I will, I will tell them, my clients that especially the consulting clients, you have to work with your employees, you have to work with your employees. In fact, I did a program for the non dumex They’re no longer inflation. I did a employee experience program with them. And I told them management, you have serious problem. You’re young graduates don’t have feelings towards your company, they are here only for the paycheck. I saw it from the journeyman employees journeyman. And the management was not so happy and end of 2018 now 2019 They close job pull out from Asia? No joke. This is serious. When when we consultants tell you something, I think you listen. We’ve seen many, many, many organization, okay, so how it works, a balance of employee experience and customer experience is always the best. And we want to create a good experience to both your employees and your customers. So in my consulting work, I will tell the participants that guys, you are given a second chance, which not many organization is going to do this, you’re given a second chance to remodel re engineer, the way you’re going to do your work is in your hand now, how you’re going to simplify the processes, how you’re going to automate the processes that it doesn’t need your intervention. So in any business, there are three elements. People process and technology if it’s manufacturing plant, so most of my clients are services based. So it’s people process and technology. Everybody’s jumping into the digitalization bandwagon. Ben bacon and people are missing the human element in digitalization when waken in digitalization flash. Recently I did a master class for this one state government, one of the state inflation. They’ve done a complete digitalization. They’ve standardized they’ve synchronized integrated all the state agencies in one single portal, which miraculously was superb. But they have a problem 50% of your population don’t have internet access.

don’t have internet. They’ve done a complete digitalization and they don’t know what to do next. Then I say, Have you spoken to your customers then we started to do some JD MAVs do to open their eyes and everything. And there is now I can see that our problem. Our people’s problem is they don’t have internet whatever digitalization we are doing is pointless. Right. So what I’ll tell you let digitalization use the technology to enable your processes, use anything and everything under the industry 4.0 AI or false AI, IoT, Big Data machine learning everything. Let them enable your processes, and free up your people’s time, free up your people’s time to serve your customers to create better experience led, give them more time to think of new ideas, new strategies, how to create better seamless experience to your customer, and also how to stay ahead of innovation. Innovate to stay ahead of competitors. And also to stay relevant in the future, your competitors can’t do that. Only human can think of new ideas how to stay relevant in the future, which a lot of brands we know like Nokia and all that mistake and then into give them a 360 degree view of the omni channel platform. Nowadays, we have dynamic customer engagement, Microsoft platform and everything super. And also integrate your sales marketing, contact center CRM and also your customer success division together with the platform, so this is my framework, I think you have seen my framework. So let the technology enable your processes as much as you can automate, let the digitalization handled, free up your people’s time to be with your customers to understand your customers to do more for your customers. So that is the framework. So in my design stage, I will I will share this slide. And this is the framework. Let’s bring your ideas into this framework. Don’t rush into digitalization where you have 30 40% of your population 75 and above. I don’t think they can go and figure out how to use your digital platform. So you have to come to a balance of hybrid solution for your customers.

Gregorio Uglioni 29:55
Thank you very much. It was really a great explanation and it make me Think understandable that the human touch is extremely important on both sides, internal in the company, and also outside of the company to interact with the customer. And employees should focus on value added activities to in the interaction with the customer, and not doing processes that can be automated or simplified. It was really a great discussion in the last phase of this interview. And in this podcast, we would like to learn a bit more about you, Santa, we’re already at the beginning, some discussion around that. But my question would be, you’re really extremely active, you are a trainer, you are a global speaker. You’re a consultant, you said that you have a small daughter 10 years old? How can you ensure to have time for your family?

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 30:49
I have my times I have some rules at home, where during eating time dinner, breakfast, lunch, no phone, and no TV is a switch of everything you connect with your family. And evening, we have played time I played my daughter. And at the moment we have locked down. So I work from home. I’m always here. My wife is teacher and I’ve always read wherever there’s no training, I don’t go to office, I’m just at home company, my daughter and everything. So it’s a tough call. It’s a tough call, we have to balance juggle in between work life balance, at the moment, still young. This I gave myself and I’m 46 another four years. Then after that, maybe I’ll reduce on my talking time and everything focused more on my daughter. It’s quite interesting.

Gregorio Uglioni 31:36
And in four years, she will she will be 14 And I think then the father needs to check a bit more what she’s doing.

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 31:43
Yes. And I need to learn Karate and Taekwondo by then

Gregorio Uglioni 31:51
Santha, one other question is, is there a book that you would recommend to the audience and yours and this book helped me really a lot, you spoke about the astrology book, but perhaps there is another book that you want to share with with your audience.

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 32:06
In terms of customers, experience outside in, I will recommend outside in that I will I will call that book is the Bible of customer experience you want to embark into customers will read that book first. Then you will start your journey from there. A lot of Ian Golding so many books, in terms of personal motivation, I always fall back to Tony Robbins. I listen to L. Brown, Tony Robbins, Jim Rohn, everyday, like one two hours while I’m working out in the evening, my bluetooth is and I am they’re talking to me. So when you work on your own, you need some motivation. And nobody from outside can come and motivate you. Except the no purpose of how I work. I have five years plan for my life. I said that five years back, I set my mind to become a global speaker and customer experience. And to do so five years later, I have some plants I will I will let you know five years later when he

Gregorio Uglioni 33:07
and I really hope that we will be still in contact because if they didn’t, what you will be in five years more than happy to have you also on my CX goalkeeper discussions. As Santha if somebody would like to connect with you what’s the best way to connect with you?

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 33:25
So they can look for me LinkedIn. I’m quite active in LinkedIn, I prefer to connect on LinkedIn then we can take to on mobile or email more

Gregorio Uglioni 33:33
perfect. I will share at the end of the of the podcasts in the shownotes your LinkedIn link. And the last question and this is the Santha golden nugget. I mean, it’s something that you would like that we discussed or something new that you would like to leave to the audience.

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 33:53
Okay, the golden nuggets will be take customer experience as movie production. Movie, you want to create James Bond or Michelle impossible 1000s of people working to to produce this movie to direct this movie, the statements the digital guys, the directors, the producers, they all are working so hard to give you a two hours movie. Two hours movie. So if your company you have 1000 people, that’s what you’re supposed to do. You have to work hard, day and night. A lot of strategies, a lot of branding, a lot of cross functional integration, teamwork, digitalization and everything to come together to serve your customer. At your best at your best always give your best and instill this into everybody’s heart in your customer in your company that all the employees must have the mindset of VR here because our customer, our customers are not our problem. And the company is paying our salary to solve the company’s problem to solve the customer better have that in mind.

Gregorio Uglioni 35:03
Thank you very much, Santha. It was really a great golden nugget. I’m not commenting that because it’s Santa golden nugget. The last thing that I want to say is thank you very much Santa for locating this discussion. It was really great to have you on this on this podcast. And I oppose that the audience enjoyed this discussion as much as I did, because it was really as usual, mind blowing, to have Santa and to discuss with him about his experiences, also from the other side of the world. It was really a great pleasure to have you. Thank you very much. Have a nice evening night. And also to the audience. I wish you a nice day evening night. Thank you very much. Bye bye. arriba do chi Grotzinger Thank you.

Santhakumaran Atmalingam 35:51
Thank you. Thank you. Bye.

Gregorio Uglioni 35:54
If you enjoyed this episode, please share the word of mouth. Subscribe it, share it until the next episode. Please don’t forget, we are not in a b2b or b2c business. We are in a human to human environment. Thank you

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