Yellow Factor: Happiness in Business with Rosaria Cirillo – E41

Episode released on: 27. September 2021

CX Goalkeeper with Rosaria Cirillo – E41 is about Yellow Factor: Happiness in Business Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper

The CX Goalkeeper had a smart discussion with Rosaria Cirillo Louwman CCXP CiHS

LinkedIn Headline: 🌻HCX & Happiness Driven Growth Catalyst📒Author📚☀️Certified Happiness Trainer✨TED❌ Speaker🌼CX Trainer & Management Advisor

We discussed about her book: Yellow Factor, Happiness in Business

You will learn about:

– The evolution of business through different levels: shareholders, customers, employees, purpose, and happiness

– Spiritual, physical, intellectual, relational, and emotional wellbeing translated into the business world for customers, employees, and society

– HAPPINESS as Health, Autonomy, Purpose, Play, Integrity, Nature, Empathy, Simplicity, Smile

– GROWTH as Grounding, Reaching up, Operationalizing, Wow Blossoming, Taking Time, Harvesting

… and much more

Her book suggestions:

– The Four Agreements; Don Miguel Ruiz, Peter Coyote, et al.
– The Fifth Agreement: A practical guide to self-mastery; Don Miguel Ruiz, Don Jose Ruiz, et al.

Rosaria’s Contact details:

Rosaria’s Golden Nugget:

  • I think it’s probably one of the magic bean right now. Take the leap, find what is your magic bean and the realm you want to get to and then just jump with laughing because for me laughing and connecting to the heart are really the golden nuggets.
  • Act from the heart and do it smiling and laughing.

“Act from the hearth and do it smiling and laughing” @wownowexp on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast

Interesting quotes:

“why not using as KPI in the organization the DIVORCE RATE? Improvement of the “business” environment impacts people life too.”

“why not using as KPI in the organization the DIVORCE RATE? Improvement of the “business” environment impacts people life too.” @wownowexp on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast

Thank you, Rosaria!

#customerexperience #leadership #internationalweekofhappinessatwork #cxgoalkeeper #happinessdrivengrowth #hcx #humanexperience #podcast

#customerexperience #leadership #cxgoalkeeper #cxtransformation #podcast


Gregorio Uglioni 0:02
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the CX goalkeeper podcast. Your host, Gregorio Uglioni. Will have small discussions with experts, thought leaders and friends on customer experience, transformation, innovation and leadership. I hope you will enjoy the next episode. Ladies and gentlemen, today’s really really a big pleasure.

I have Rosario Cirillo with me, Hi Rosaria!

Rosaria Cirillo 0:32
good morning, buongiorno. It’s funny with you like English Italia like my brain goes like,

Gregorio Uglioni 0:38
exactly it’s important to switch to adapt. And we are doing the CX goalkeeper podcast in English so that everybody can profit from our discussion. Before we start discussing discussing about fishes and everything around that. Could you please introduce yourself?

Rosaria Cirillo 0:58
I am Rosaria Yeah, originally Italian. So I like to say I’m little you don’t see it with now with with the cameras, but I’m actually really a little Italian full of energy. Because I’m also quite little and I’m happiness I like to call myself happiness Change Catalyst. I am a customer experience professional for the mean, for the past 20 years, I’ve studied Business Economics with my master’s in customer experience. But happiness has always been the lingering of fourth and feeling. And it’s been my passion ever since I even started studying philosophy. But I went then actually to economics to really start to understand it. And as I started to, to really work on customer experience, I got even more into the mind of customers and really understand from that point of view, what makes us happy. And that’s how I came then further to happiness. So in the last few years, I got myself also certified as happiness trainer, most recently as a love for yoga, hatha yoga teacher. So yeah, like, I love to bring happiness, more happiness into the world. Where happiness I also like to say, it’s it’s full concept. It’s not just happiness. Yeah, let’s be happy. By there is health, there is so much elements behind it. So it’s not fluffy, happy, but it’s really science of happiness.

Gregorio Uglioni 2:17
I think at the end, it’s a really similar to customer experience. It’s not, it’s not something fluffy, to make customer NPS. But it’s something more and we need to dis understanding. And therefore we are also used to share this, this information. At the end, you’re saying you are more but you have a big, big, big energy and you are spreading happiness. I was part also of some of your presentation. And they were really super interesting. On one side, it was really a webinar where I learned a lot and a lot about your book, if your book by the I never read the book. And I will come back to when I read this book. And then I was also participating on a different session where he was reading energy, happiness, it was really half an hour completely different out of the box. And we laughed quite a lot. And therefore I really think that that’s what you are doing. It’s outstanding. One question about you. You grew up in splendid region. Could you please give you three? Insights?

Rosaria Cirillo 3:18
Yeah, it’s one that actually very few people know about it. Normally, I would share a picture let’s start people setting to guess where is this one? I actually don’t know where to go you if you ever been to Caserta. So like, I’m originally from Caserta. You know Caserta?

Gregorio Uglioni 3:32
I know, doesn’t need to be honest. I was not there. And it was in Napoli and surroundings. But the next time I know where I need to go.

Rosaria Cirillo 3:42
So you see most people know Naples. So I wasn’t upset. Yeah, I’m from like, 20 kilometers from Naples. But in Caserta. Basically, we have an amazing royal palace. It’s actually the summer residents of the king that build our site. So I would say we have the best version with four kilometers garden and waterfall. So it’s really amazing. But nobody knew about it. So it’s like I grew up in this city casetta where it seemed to me that people were just accepting mediocracy or Yeah, you know, like, we always have the idea of Italians are very happy. But it was it was a superficial happiness. It was like a pleasure, happiness. It was not the demonic happiness really about life and improving things around. So we had a very poor government organization that was garbage everywhere. And I just I couldn’t get it. For me. It was like it was such a discrepancy. We had so many beautiful resources. We knew how to enjoy like how to have fun, but we were not really happy. And that’s where I started my path I left Caserta to go studying in Rome. And then from Rome. I started to do internship. I first went actually for six months studying in Ireland. And that’s also When I start to see her look, yeah, they have beautiful views. But they actually mark them. They they, they give a name to every single view. And they have a touristic center in Italy, not at all. And it’s not in the south. And then from there, I came to the Netherlands to start to do an internship for six months at Forrester Research. That’s where I started to get into customer experience, because it was 2002, like nearly 20 years ago to where customer experience was just starting as a concept. And then from there on, I made customer experience. Yeah, my life. And it is a combination, interesting combination of Italian, within the Netherlands, where people really knew how to enjoy life. And that for me was what struck me as soon as I came to the Netherlands was this concept that we also mentioned the book of hustling as Allah guide, where people will leave the office at five, go to the park, enjoy wine, enjoy the sign, there was really, they could really make the best out of every circumstance, the weather, nature around and I really had this feeling of enjoying Yeah, life and really building their happiness.

Gregorio Uglioni 6:10
I think this should be always also our long term target. Because it’s, we are either only once and it’s extremely relevant what you’re saying one question, and it’s a yes or no question. I know that I shouldn’t ask this question. Are the parents of your husband still thinking that you live in in this Reggia di Caserta? Because they have been this big villa?

Rosaria Cirillo 6:34
I mentioned that in the book or, like, I didn’t make that joke to my parents in law at the moment. Because what is fascinating in Caserta, is that when you arrived from the highway, you arrived in front of the royal palace massive, and you could you can rent some rooms in there. So like I pretend I was like we do we do tell you that. Because now so like the afterwards we told them no, of course not just a normal human being.

Gregorio Uglioni 7:01
You mentioned that in one of your presentation, it’s not stalking, if I am speaking with a guest, then I prepare also for for the discussion.

Rosaria Cirillo 7:11
Excellent memory, I didn’t even remember mentioning that.

Gregorio Uglioni 7:16
I think that was also the why I started reading the yellow goldfish factor, because I was participating to one of your presentation. And it was really mind blowing your energy, what you were explaining how you were explaining that, I really, really suggest to all my colleagues, all the listener of this podcast, ever look of what Rosario is doing because it’s outstanding. And then I said, if I am que weeks location, then I want to read something that bring me forward and therefore always about customer experience. And I selected your book, because I said if this presentation are so funny, but there’s also a lot of great contents, then I want to read the book. And it was really an outstanding book that I suggest to everybody. I will put the link in the show notes. But now the big question is, why did you wrote this book?

Rosaria Cirillo 8:10
So the interesting one, so far, there are two main things. I mean, I guess I I don’t know if everyone has a dream, like most people have a dream to write a book. So I was I always loved writing. So for me, it was always missing, I’m just gonna gonna do it. But I knew I wanted to write, I wanted to bring more happiness into the world, also through a book and a business one and an artistic one. So I actually did promise my father, in his last few months of my father was dying with cancer. So every dimension, at least in the Italian book more than in the English one, and I wanted to share with him something that was going to do and the book was the one thing which was like, you know, this is a concrete commitment that my father was a teacher. So a new book was something that would speak to him. So I made that commitment to him. And then things kept going, and actually I’ve been working, I’m still working forever on a book about his last six, six months of illness and what that meant for me being a mother to be, but that is still so emotionally still in a corner. And then what happened was that I started to bring into the world that the concept of happiness, even growth with a TEDx. But in a way, it was like a visionary concept. And for me, it was struggling. I’m like, I can see this, but how can I make other people see it, I can see that companies are starting to do things that are focused on happiness, but not enough. So I cannot do this. So I started to think I need to start collecting examples in a structured way of companies which are already added putting happiness at the center, or at least doing some of the elements that contribute to happiness. And also for me, putting down all the knowledge that cumulated through the years plus researching new knowledge Based on what really makes us happy. And then that was the moment where it’s like, it’s always a win when you really have an intention. The universe conspires to make it happen. So at that moment, like really like the same week, I got an email from some firms asking me if I had examples about pink boat fish, because at the time, he was riding pink. And then I started looking back and look back at these studies and start researching more and more about him and read some parts of him. But I could see also his evolution, how we had moved from customers embrace the purpose. I was like, Okay, I brought him back. I was like, Sam, yeah, I don’t ever know any example about pink, but I really think your next book should be happiness and the yellow goldfish, why don’t we talk about it? And surprising, you know, conduct we do have those moments of springing, but not often. The thing springs also on the other side. And surprisingly, it was like a merely reacting. I was like, yes, let’s talk. Okay. And that’s how, then yeah, the sparkle just became a fire. And that’s how yellow goldfish came to existence. Then for the following year, we start collecting a lot of examples. He has a way, Stan of creating the illicitly kind of crowdsourcing projects, but also to put together all the examples we are aware of. And then from there, it became a book. And actually this month is almost, it’s gonna be three years already. So

Gregorio Uglioni 11:28
it’s like, Did you something I wanted to mention. This is also the month of the anniversary of your book three years. Congratulation. Congratulation. This is really a great book. And perhaps also to make that understandable. But not everybody understand that? What’s the difference between pink goldfish yellow goldfish are the other colors?

Rosaria Cirillo 11:50
Yeah, so basically, what in a nutshell, the concept stems from a goldfish. So the idea of a goldfish is that not many people know that you have an average goldfish can be three to five centimeters. But actually the word business, Guinness records, it’s like up to 50 centimeters if not a meter. And, and so some started to look into what are the differences? What what can make such a difference on the size of a goldfish, and identified five elements, out of which the one that companies can really only have control over is the DNA. So the way that they’re able to differentiate. So he started to analyze ways that companies can differentiate is starting by looking out and the differentiate on customer experience are going to differentiate on employee experience for them was palpable fish, green goldfish, then he looked at technology. So that’s the blue goldfish. Then he looked at purpose, that’s the red goldfish, then pink was about and I’m thinking I’m missing a color. Oh, yeah. And yet golden purple goldfish, which was about what the 20% that brings the 80% results. Then he had pink, which was the sixth color, which was about how the weaknesses, and what makes us weird, can make become our strength. And what was also for me quite fascinating. And that period, was also the period where I actually discovered myself idea day. So for me, it was also like reading pickled fish was I can’t, so my wilderness can actually be my strength. And then the seventh color became yellow, which is about happiness. So that’s a bit the story of the goldfish.

Gregorio Uglioni 13:34
Thank you. And it’s really interesting. We could have I think, five or six podcasts for each book, but let’s focus on the yellow one. Don’t worry, I’m not saying another one. Because you wrote the yellow one. Therefore, let’s focus on that was for for me was really, really interesting and and made me think about it, you have one really interesting parts that it’s the phase one is thinking about your orders, then you have thinking about customer customer value, customer lifetime value, then people are saying yes, customer are extremely important. But let’s speak about employee experience, because at the end for employees create the customers. And I think the next one is purpose, why we are here and why we are doing something other thinking about Simon Sinek book, and now you’re adding the next level of emptiness. How did you create this path? And could you please elaborate a bit on that?

Rosaria Cirillo 14:28
Yeah, so that one was actually so it was like it was playing in my mind a lot. And then that path is actually something that Sam covers, indeed, in red goldfish. He has an evolution of the business. So really, how do you see the business evolve? For me, it’s really about it’s an evolution but it’s also like a stagnation because it’s also like four different type of ways approach philosophy of business. And that’s where I came in with happiness and discussion we had with with Stand is also an easy it really, you know a path do you have to do either one or the other one? Can I love Tarbell shall talks about the tyranny of? Or is it the shareholders, or the customer or the employees, and like, let’s get our way from this tyranny of the art, let’s embrace. And we can have all the elements together. And if we have all the elements together, then we reach even more. And for me even more than an evolution was really about it remind me a lot of the millennial discussion of is it the sun or the Earth at the center of the universe. At the end, all those elements, for me are part of systems and we have also seen system thinking from singer is that we have to stop seeing everything like a silo. And we really have to start seeing things as an overall system. And if we bought happiness at the center of our universe, because ultimately, happiness is the ultimate goal, why everybody is a year and why we all leave. If we put happiness at the center, and then around it, you start to have the customers and employees and purpose and shareholders then you really create an A healthy, sustainable, and ultimately also profitable. Yeah, system universe. So that that’s the idea behind it.

Gregorio Uglioni 16:21
And I think it makes totally sense. The big question that we already discussed on the previous question is our automated understandable for the C suite executive. But this is another topic, I think we can we can start speaking about the book, spreading the word of mouth, and it totally makes sense. You’re speaking about emptiness. I think all the people are being speaking about well being but at the end, you are speaking or sharing the same idea that it’s not all about shareholder values customer, but it’s something more and it’s something that we can achieve as human beings and not only thinking about business, because business is something that we as human beings created for the economy and all that stuff. But at the end, we are human beings working. And we are human beings 24 hours a day, as you said at the beginning, at five o’clock in the evening, or at six o’clock in the evening, it’s not that it stop, close everything and I go out and I’ve been I am completely different person. And therefore, what I really liked in the book it’s created about, you’re speaking about emptiness and emptiness. It’s an acronym of, of something different. And growth. What does happiness mean for you?

Rosaria Cirillo 17:42
Yeah, so. So there are a lot of what that what we did. So like one thing, if you’re mentioned by me, I love to learn. So it’s like if I could spend my entire life learning, reading, researching, that’s what I would do. So I also learned about a lot of different happiness model out there from Belmar, to spire to flourish. And when you talk about well being like, I’m especially trained by the School of Tal Ben Shahar, he talks about the spider wellbeing model, which is spiritual, physical, intellectual, relational, and emotional well being. What I did with yellow goldfish, and with the happiness model that that we created was really to bring all of those elements well being, but also translating them into the business world, and into what makes our customers, employees and society happy. And how can we as human beings contribute to his happiness because nobody can make somebody else happy. Each of us is responsible for their own happiness, we can only contribute. So that’s how then the happiness Happiness, started to become an economist for nine paths of nine ways are now what I call also the nine petals of the sunflower of happiness. The first one stands for health. So that’s both our physical and our mental well being so and that’s the basis for everything, then you have a which stands for autonomy. So we need to be able in the condition of taking steps and feeling ownership of our time or our space or even of our energy. Then you have the first P which is for purpose. So that’s the why how can you add value and meaning to your life and the work of others, then you have the second P is for play. This is really about our childlike in nature. It’s about creativity. It’s about just enjoying time, doing everything that we feel like then you have the eye for integrity. So this is about honesty, trust, really doing things which make the word better than we found. Then you have the n which is for nature, where nature stands, both for actual nature, so experiencing nature, and preserving respecting nature, but also it’s about beauty, because ultimately nature is Beauty. So it’s about also appreciation of, of beauty and how can we bring more beauty into our life, then we have the A for empathy. So that’s really about everything related to connection. Because we are human being connected, you’re wired for connection. So all the elements have empathy and emotion. And then you have the two s, one s, it’s for simplicity, because it’s like things that the simpler we keep them also the less strain for our brain for our mental for our energy. And the final s, it’s for smile. And back then, so I miss a smile and celebration, and really also a word and acknowledgement of our quality, when I didn’t know back then, also was that you can smile and laugh as a choice. So I in the book, we talk a lot about the power of laughter. But i Back then I thought, I have to look at comedy, I have to make a joke in order to stimulate laughter. And most recently, I learned actually, we can laugh is a choice, we’d love the

Gregorio Uglioni 21:01
younger. I think it’s really, really interesting. And before I asked them the next question, elaborating a bit of all these concepts concept, I’m thinking about myself. And in the situation that I am now I am really, I’m trying to focus on the two different piece. One is purpose, why am I here, what I’m doing in a business context, but also in a family context, because we have changed, our son is going to the kindergarten, and therefore it’s really a big change for him what for me, it’s normal to go to the kindergarten, or go to the preschool. For me, it’s a big, big change. And therefore, it’s really interesting to think about why I’m here what I’m doing, and what I wanted to live to him when I’m not here anymore. And the second one, what I really think it’s super interesting is the secondary, it’s played back again to my son really focused on on my son, it’s, it’s playing with him, it changed the setup, because there are no specific roles, you can create something and investing the time playing with him at the end to create something that if you look from outside, you don’t know that but we create a story we do this, we do that we play like that. And, and it’s really outstanding. And it brings you to view a new way of thinking. Now not speaking about me speaking about you, which letters do you prefer most?

Rosaria Cirillo 22:22
So for me, it’s, it’s, it’s a tough one. It’s like there are a few more that we like, like nature, play in his mind, but like my favorite adults, like play and smile together. Because it’s like you say play it’s it’s the car, you know, we and so it’s my you know, when the first thing that we do as it as a child, when we are three months, and we are all alike, as parents, we’re all waiting for that very first smile and giggle. And then we spend hours looking at how the kids play. So the first thing we do when we come into the world is we smile and we play that’s our almost you could say our initial nature. And then somehow the world changes. And we stopped smiling or with smile less, and we definitely stopped playing. So for me those two elements, those letters were also like the most intriguing one, because when we play in my with mind, we are happy. It’s like So why can we not bring more play, and more smile into our life. Knowing ultimately, when we play, we become more creative. And when we become more creative, we become also more productive and more innovative. So there are so many benefits that we can ripe while being happy. So I’d say definitely those two. And also because especially if I think also about the COVID period, in a while everybody ran to buy toys. Remember in March where everybody, when we were going to look down, everybody want to buy toilet paper, the first thing I did was to buy a trampoline, I was like if we are going to get into lockdown, and the kids have to be in the house for weeks and mums. They need they needed an outlet. So I bought the trampoline. But the trampoline has also become the way for us to connect. So I play on it as well I go jumping on it with them. And whenever we argue they go on it to kind of meditate or rest or take a rest. And that is the place where I can also go and reconnect with them. So it also helps with connection.

Gregorio Uglioni 24:24
And I think this is really important also to have an example to explain that. And basically, whatever really liked from the book, it’s also it’s full of different example coming from different industries. And one of the example I like most is from bob chapman, we measure we measure success, the way we touch people life. Perhaps it’s not the perfect sentence but you understand what that what meaning and and for me, it’s really it’s an industry where you think we don’t need customer experience. We don’t need to focus on people. Let’s do what needs to be done, but each He completely, what’s your preferred example in the book, again, extremely difficult to choose. But something that stands out for you.

Rosaria Cirillo 25:09
As they I really, really love the one that you mentioned, bob chapman, what I also love from him is that he brought in as a KPI in the organization, the divorce rate, because by talking to his employees, he realized what an impact different environment made also people live. My very, very favorite example is actually the one from General Electric’s. So we have basically, it’s an example of dark deeds, which are built in the new MRI machine. And, and for me that example, it’s, it’s my favorite, because it covers both two major elements of happiness. So we put it under play. Now we put it under the nature because of the beauty, but it’s also part of play an empathy. And is also a big, big example of growth. So if I show the example in a nutshell is so that it had created this MRI machine, and he decided to took time to actually go and see it in practice on the field. So to leave the office, to actually go and see this machine, this machine was for children, which are to have an MRI, now children who have to have an MRI, are probably highly sick, highly stressed their parents. So can you imagine, again, just blows my mind, imagine what can be happening in that family. And that it is an engineer a fourth, I’m gonna look at this child, and he’s gonna be so happy to jump into my fantastic new technology machine. And then instead, he goes on the floor in the hospital, and all he says, Is this frightened child hanging on the arms of his parents, which are also highly stressed and screaming, either want to go in. And that was for him, the moment where it’s what I call the grounding moment is the moment where he starts seeing the reality from the eyes of the child, rather than from his own reality. He starts feeling empathy for the child. And then he decided, so ear that that moment you it’s a moment of choice, he could decide to just ignore that moment and just say, Yeah, but this is the best machine. And the job he needs to do is to get a scan. But instead, he decided to challenge himself to go back in himself and say, What can I do differently. So he went back to the drawing board, he decided to reach up. That’s the art that we say in growth. So he went back to study went to them, he had learned he had heard about design thinking he went to the Sanford School, he learned everything possible about design thinking, then with this team, they start over rationalizing. So that’s also the art of growth, really designing an entire new experience. And few months later, they launched what is called the adventure series, where basically there were all sorts of detail, the machine was the same, but they created the experiences the pirate Island, the jungle, the capitan Hook, and for each of those experiences, there would be also sound so when the children would come in the corridor, there would be sounds, they would spray water. So for the for the children, it became almost like a trip to fantasy land. And when they went back to see the first child, the child going into the machine, when the child actually went out, it turned to his parents and said, Mum, Dad, can we do this again tomorrow. And that for him was really like the moment where he realized he really had changed the game, the conversation. But what’s most impactful also about this example, is actually how impactful it was also on the hospital and on their profitability, because the fact that those children were distressed meant that the most of them, they did not want to go in the MRI machine. So a lot of stress for the hospital. People as well. It required the anesthesiologist to so that meant a very expensive doctor, very expensive procedure very time intensive. So you could only plan a number of scan per day. And after this change, there was 80% Less requirement anesthesiologist, can you imagine the impact on Doctor expensive expenses. So it also meant that they could do much more scans in a day which ultimately resulted in much more life saved, because much more scans could be done earlier on. So for me, it’s just such a mind blowing. Example and that’s for me, what it’s so much represents what I call happiness driven growth, where you can put happiness at the center transform, a terrible moment into moment of fun for the child change the conversation with the parents, while creating more profit for the hospital and saving costs. So that is definitely my exam. My favorite example. And I

So as an example, a bit of doubt, it’s so the growth stands for grounding, reaching up or personalizing, while blossoming taking time and harvesting. So the first element is that grounding it’s like so I also use the metaphor of the sunflower, in the book and even more in the second edition of of yellow factor, because the sunflower, it’s really the the metaphor of growth, and how everything can start from a simple seeds. But that said, on his own is not enough, you so you need to know the seed, but then you also need to find fertile ground the right timing for it, you need to water it, you need to nurture it, you need to protect it, from all the if you ever tried to grow some flowers in your garden, I’ve done it now for three years. And it’s an amazing experience, because then you have all those little adult males that are gonna go and eat it up. So it’s like that seed really has to have all of the right conditions in order to start germinating. And then after it germinates, it start reaching up. So there is this reach up phase in which you say, I challenge the status quo, and I decide to be where I am, to follow my dream to follow the sun, then you go into open, rationalizing. So you see also starts getting in all the different leaves and all the different blossom, and then eventually it gets to what I call Wow, blossoming. But in order to have that grow, you need to have also the you have to take time, so it requires time. And only after that you can really harvest the results and especially with the sunflower, but with every report of happiness. Afterwards, you also have the seeds. And those seeds will generate new sunflowers, they become food for the birds, they can become also like we eat sunflower seeds. And even just the beauty of the sunflowers is out there for everybody to see. So that is for me. How Yeah, the Coronavirus of growth. What’s what it stands for?

Gregorio Uglioni 32:30
What you’re saying with sunflowers, for me was mind blowing with potatoes. My mom said put one potato under the earth. And then you need to give water and wait and wait and wait. And then after some I don’t know, weeks months, I found out that there were quite a lot of potatoes there. But it was not an easy path to get there. Because my mother said, You need to give them waters every evening because it’s warm and all this stuff. And therefore it’s take times as you’re saying, and the politics, it’s not so easy. On this acronym of growth, which one is the most difficult from from your side? From your point of view?

Rosaria Cirillo 33:11
Yeah, so that’s, that’s also an interesting one. So like having said that time is probably like the quintessential element that you always need. What is always difficult, what is most difficult. So there is one thing that comes to mind. And it’s in the past few months I’ve been looking at once upon a time, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the it’s a series on Netflix, and unfortunately, now we’ve removed it. But it’s amazing. It’s really all about fantasy and all and I think that the most difficult element is that moment between grounding and reaching out. So in the movie, once upon a time, you have this moment in which you move between realities between different worlds. So from the Snow White, enchanted forest to reality to frozen, or to just a word without magic, and you move across using a magic bean, this magic bean opens a portal and then you have a moment where you have to choose if you jump in the portal or not. And I’ve been thinking as I watched that, and as I’ve also thought about growth, and he’s like, it’s with growth, you know all the elements. But there is one moment and I think it’s very much between the germinating moment and the reaching up, in which you have a choice. Do I jump in the bottle or not? And that I think is the most difficult one. So it’s like it’s like that day, it’s when he had this moment of grounding at the hospital where he saw the word with the eyes of the child, and then reaching up by thinking design thinking but at some point they had this moment where you have to choose, do I go for it? Do I believe that I can change the way that MRI scans have been done until now or not? And I feel that that’s the critical moment for most of us. If I think also about myself, there’s So many moments where I get that magic bean and then like, now, the world is not ready for it and wait. And then it’s a missed chance. So yeah, I think that is the most difficult one that moment between germinating and reaching up like choosing to just go for it.

Gregorio Uglioni 35:19
Thank you very much Rosaria. It was really great to discuss about this outstanding book, some question about you. And then I will, we can conclude, is there a book or something that you would like to share with the audience that you are saying, this is something that helped me to grow?

Rosaria Cirillo 35:38
Ah, there are so so so many of them. So I can be a huge fan of Brene Brown, I’ve read all of the Brene Brown Books, Positive Intelligence from shrubs. shameen is also been one that has really made the major growth for them, the one that I would share with the audience right now, it’s the latest one, which is the Four Agreements and actually the fifth agreement from Miguel Ruiz. Because that one, I’m like, I only read it a year ago, the Four Agreements and the fifth agreement now. And I’m like, Oh, if I could have read this book, 20 years ago, it probably would have changed a lot. So that is a very important one, because it’s about the basis of the agreements that we make, like everything we do in life is an agreement. But we can change those agreements at any moment. And iski five agreements, it’s really like, it’s about being impeccable with your words. Always do your best. Like, always don’t make assumptions. So really, yeah, don’t just believe and I forget the other two right now, like, but it’s, it really changed the way that I see things. And he’s really like, oh, yeah, don’t take anything personally. So it’s like whatever happens, it doesn’t have to be with us. Everybody is in his own world in his own rearm. So sometimes things don’t just happen personally. And keeping those things in mind, I think will also help taking the jump with a magic been more often, at least,

Gregorio Uglioni 37:09
thank you. If somebody from the audience would like to contact you. What’s the best way

Rosaria Cirillo 37:14
so they can follow me on Instagram was oh, that’s a while now we expe I’m also on Facebook on LinkedIn. Absolutely. So that’s there. And I’m also open just to get a feel for just email. Rosaria. Well, now that your

Gregorio Uglioni 37:28
thank you very much. And we are coming to the very last question. This is the question I’m always asking. It’s Rosario is a golden nugget. It’s something that we discussed or something new that you would leave to the audience.

Rosaria Cirillo 37:42
Ah, I think it’s really probably one of the magic bean right now. It’s so it’s really take the leap, find what is your magic bean and identify what is your magic bean and the realm you want to get to and then just jump and with laughing because it was like really for me like laughing and connecting to the heart are really for me also the golden nuggets of Yeah, like act from the heart and do it smiling and laughing.

Gregorio Uglioni 38:09
Thank you very much. And as usual, I am not commenting Rosaria’s Golden Nugget because it’s Rosaria golden nugget. The last thing I want to say is it was Thank you very much. It was a great pleasure to have you on my podcast.

Rosaria Cirillo 38:22
Thank you so much to you. Gregorio great podcast. I love also to listen to your podcast. So for me, it was also an honor to be one of your guests now. Thank you.

Gregorio Uglioni 38:31
Thank you very much and also to the audience. I hope that you enjoyed this discussion as I did because it was a really outstanding, full of energy full of happiness. Please go forward with a smile and go out with a smile because this will change your life. Thank you very much grant similar energy. If you enjoyed this episode, please share that word of mouth. Subscribe it, share it until the next episode. Please don’t forget, we are not in a b2b or b2c business. We are in a human to human environment. Thank you

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