CX Goalkeeper with Ana Maria Zumsteg (2nd half) speaking about the silver lining among relationship NPS, transactional NPS and employee NPS – Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper
Ana Maria Zumsteg’s second half
….with more than 20 years of CX work at Zurich Insurance and experience in implementing CX measurement tools & understanding customers’ needs across 30+ countries, Ana Maria Zumsteg shared some of her top learnings.
Ana Maria implemented the NPS framework at Zurich as an enabler to build a long-lasting relationship with customers and employees. The clear goal was not to measure a KPI but impacting people and their life.
During the second half of this smart discussion Ana Maria explains the silver lining among Relationship NPS (R-NPS), Transactional NPS (T-NPS) and Employee NPS (E-NPS)
The T-NPS is related to servicing while the R-NPS focus on the entire relationship with the company.
Ana Maria uses the example of Lamborghini or Ferrari. Most owners of such cars also brand’s fans (i.e., R-NPS = 10). However, after a bad service experience (e.g., car not properly washed after being in the dealership) the owner could give a low T-NPS value.
It is always about the balance among the three main components:
– Brand Perception,
– Value proposition (e.g., Quality of your product)
NPS is a critical component of a bigger CX ecosystem of metrics (and not one metric in isolation). Other relevant KPIs could be:
– Brand awareness
– Product comparison
– Competitors comparison
– Market studies
– Business KPIs like ROI
The Employee satisfaction (E-NPS) plays a crucial role for reaching real success in a customer centric transformation.
to conclude the smart discussion with a quote to ponder on
“There is only one boss: The Customer ” (Sam Walton). Ana Maria Zumsteg on the CX Goalkeeper PodcastTweet
Ana Maria’s contact detail is: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ana-maria-zumsteg/
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Gregorio Uglioni 0:04
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome again to this CX Talk. I’m really very happy to have Ana Maria Zumsteg again with us, we had really good feedback on the last webcast that we did. And therefore, we decided together to deep dive in two to three questions that the audience asked. Ana Maria a warm welcome.
Ana Maria Zumsteg 0:27
Thank you, thanks. Thanks to you for this opportunity to, you know, to talk about our passion. And so I appreciate it.
Gregorio Uglioni 0:37
It’s a pleasure to have you again, and thank you very much for your time, the time that you’re sharing with us. Let’s really start now, deep down because the audience know you, they know what you did at Zurich Insurance. They know you’re passion about customer experience, they know that you did a great implementation of NPS framework. And we learned quite a lot that NPS it’s not about the KPI but it’s it’s really about also understanding the customer. The first question I have is, what’s the difference between the transactional NPS and the relationship NPS?
Ana Maria Zumsteg 1:12
Thank you. That’s a very good question. And a very important question. You know, I think that if you think about service being the king, you know, you would be looking very much at transactional MPs, but actually, you know, is this is a trinity. So, it really covers the brand, and it also covers the quality of your product. So, when you look at the relationship APS, what you are trying to understand is really the entire range of you know, their relationship with your customer. So, what are their perceptions of your brand, how do they relate to your product, and that is not just the quality of the product, but also the value proposition and the services. So, I see rnps as the mother of all metrics, because it does give you told overview of the entire relationship, it allows you to understand where you know, your customer is not just in terms of services, because your service may be perfect, but if the product is not fitting their expectation is the product is not you know, offer at the right price. Or if your brand is not a trusted brand, you know, if you have problems with reputation, or with awareness, you know, if your broker is not known, and a customer is unsure, whether you will deliver or not. So, you know, understanding where the customer is in all these areas allow you to be more targeted in all other first in your entire strategy, but also on your DMPS. So, then you go to, you know, to a key a very key, assuming that you know, your brand is is well known is trusted, you are offering the right product for the right price, in the view of your customer, you know, then you look in detail to that journey to those interactions, that you have the service interactions, and you know, and identifying the pain points, you can go into the TMPs tnpa system stands for transactional MPs, and transactional MPs, as the name says, looks at every single transaction. And so you actually then go and assess the level of satisfaction that your customer has, at every single point of interaction, and also by the different channels, because nowadays, you know, interactions are not linear. You know, that’s why we talk about Omni channels. So and then you can, you know, so TMPs is a lot more punctual, it’s really going to specific service transactions, and allowing you to understand what you need to improve in those. So I would always first implement RMPs, you know, derived the strategy from the RMPs, which gave me a good understanding of my customer. And then based on that, you know, go pantry into tnbs.
Gregorio Uglioni 4:16
Okay, thank you very much. I think it was really, really a good example, perhaps also for the audience to understand and I make an example that we didn’t discuss, perhaps you can correct me if I think about my pressure, not customer experience. Matau in this case, soccer they want played with the feet. The relationship NPS is let’s say the relationship that I have with the team I like or my love, and the transactional NPS is more about one transaction it means I’m not not happy about our the the team played in during the last game, and therefore I would give a bet, a bad result. From for the last for the last game, but over the relationship that I have with this with this team over the years, I can give an order value because I really like the hour they’re playing I like how they are and so on. Is this correct?
Ana Maria Zumsteg 5:14
Yes, this this is correct. And the example that I, that I think is very graphic for most people, and I use a lot is with car brands. You know, if you love a brand, let’s say, as a man, you probably I don’t know, love a Lamborghini or a Ferrari, you know, and if you could afford to buy a Lamborghini or a Ferrari, you know, you are already you know, you’re very happy with the brand, you are proud to drive a Lamborghini or a Ferrari, your, your favorite brand can be any, you know, and if it happens that when you take it to the garage, they didn’t watch it, you didn’t clean it properly. You know, you’re upset about that, but it does not change. So I think that that’s the important thing to understand that for different products, different brands, people place different, has an emotive different emotional impact, you know, the brand side, the price side and the interaction side. And in certain cases, the interaction side will be will impact the fact that the customer will not come back again. But you know, if somebody doesn’t clean your beloved car, well, you will still love it. So…
Gregorio Uglioni 6:29
thank you, Anna Maria, I think I would say Ferrari, but let’s go to the next question. Are there other KPIs related to NPS that you would measure?
Ana Maria Zumsteg 6:43
Yes, definitely. You know, so I mean, for us, for example, as I was saying, when you think about the, the R-NPSs, you’re looking at the brand. So obviously, as I said before, a brand with low awareness or a brand with low reputation can be, you know, can have a negative impact on your NPS. So also, you know, monitoring your your brand awareness, your brand, doing some brand research and understanding where you stand is quite important. And matching this with the DoD metrics, also doing some product comparison, price comparison, understanding what your competitive advantages, you know, so why should customers come to you, understanding what the customer is expecting from your product in terms of features, as well as price is gonna be also a very important metric, you then have your market studies, European market studies to understand the market, but I think there I always recommend to be cautious, because you need to understand if you are not conducting your own market study, you need to understand what is available. What type of studies is being conducted, you know, is it and only was the study said, a panel study? How was the question war? That was it at the beginning of the question, at the end? What were the sample sizes for all competitors. So, I think it’s a lot more complex than what meets the eye. And I guess, and obviously, you look at your business KPIs, you look at your customer loyalty, you look at product density, you know, I think that CX cannot exist in isolation, we need to show the value that we produce, and that is very important.
Gregorio Uglioni 8:35
Thank you. Ana Maria. I fully agree what viewers you’re saying. And I think it’s also important to link and pass its relationship and pass on the transaction and pass, but also financial KPIs, like return on investment, new revenues, and so on, that you can prove what you’re doing that you’re also bringing forward. Your your company,
Ana Maria Zumsteg 8:55
I think I one that I just forgot, and I think is probably one of the most important is your employees NPS. You know, I think that is so crucial. So crucial for me, maintaining the employees are such a crucial part of the equation. And they are key players in the relationship, they are very important, their opinion matter. Indeed I am, you know, I’m very keen on having on doing product MPs on employees, separate to the general customer. And I think that we should take very seriously the input that employees give us about every touchpoint and you know, and every aspect of the relationship, because they the the day to day with the customer, they know, you know, customers might be Chai, our employees now, and they care, you know, and I think they deserve this recognition.
Gregorio Uglioni 9:48
Sure, then the employees should be the first fans of a company and therefore it’s important to understand what motivates them, what engage them and what should be improved in order to improve the experience. At the end, it’s always if we’re speaking about auto then transactional enters your example with the car, you need to have motivated, engaged employee in order to add the customer because somebody that is engaged goes the extra mile try to find new solution, new way to, to cope with what the customer was was asking. And and I think this is this is really key. It’s not about speaking about KPIs, because I see quite a lot of companies that are defining KPIs targets, let’s say NPS should be at this level. And they’re doing everything to get to get at this level. What’s What’s your your view on this topic?
Ana Maria Zumsteg 10:47
You, as I said, you can, you know, you can have an NPS of, let’s say, 10, by having you know, 10% promoters, 80%, passive, and you can have an NPS of 10 by having 50% promoters and 40% detractors. You know, so if you only look at a metric, you might be missing totally the point, you know, there are many ways to get to the same NPS. So I think that there are other aspects that are a lot more important that the metric by itself, also putting target metric. And I know, I don’t take me wrong, I don’t have anything against having NPS as a KPI and as a target metric. But I think it should not be looking isolation, it should be, you know, you should go deeper into the metric itself, you should understand the composition of the metric. And you should understand the underlying comments from the customers, you should really listen to what they say, you know, I think is, is crucial to understand what your customers want. That’s, that’s the main point.
Gregorio Uglioni 12:02
Thank you very much. And I think this is really key. The NPS itself, it’s a metric, it helps us to understand the progress what we are doing, and what what what can we do, but this is only the way that we really understand what customer wants, what what are the needs of the customer, and how to cope with them in order to improve and then to achieve the next level of NPS, based on what you are saying, I think we are again, coming to an end perhaps do you want to give us a short summary? Or your thoughts on what we discussed in the last or in the first webcast? And today?
Ana Maria Zumsteg 12:48
Yes, thank you. So I guess, you know, as Sam Walton, the founder of Walmart once said,
“There is only one boss, and that’s the customer”
you know, if the customer is not happy, he can he or she can just take their money to a next supplier. And, you know, and they are at the end of the day, the ones that define the success and sustainability of our company. So, I think that, having that very clear, and putting the customer cell check basis for you know, I mean, I think we have brilliant examples, with Amazon with Apple, of customer centric companies that really nail it down by focusing on that very, one premise. So for me is half a vision, you know, don’t think about the metric the metric is, is a lever is that it helps you to understand where you are on your journey. But, you know, the key is to understand who is the boss, and, you know, and understand that boss, because every single customer, I mean, we all have other health, we have kids, we have parents, you know, a personal relationship, if it’s already difficult. Now, a relationship with a multitude of people, you know, that are expecting something from you requires that you really understand what these individuals are expecting from you, and that you can deliver to the best of their expectation. So I guess that is that is a summary. You know, keep the customer as the main driver and have a very clear strategy. Use your metrics to guide that strategy.
Gregorio Uglioni 14:40
And I would add even more in during this COVID 19 crisis, where it’s not possible to have interactions, then it’s even more important to understand what really customer needs are and are they changing now that we are going to again, some months where we We’ll have any some issues about COVID-19. And therefore, it’s important to find those a way to empathize with the customer, to be with the customer and to support them. And during this this crisis period, it’s always the best point in time to show the strength of a brand and empathize with the customer.
Ana Maria Zumsteg 15:19
I fully agree with you, you know, I really think that we really need to keep in mind that this is not just, you know, they crisis is going to the pandemic is going out for a long time. It is impacting people’s psyches. And you know, and they, and we all need a little bit of extra pampering of extra listening to have extra understanding and empathizing. I believe that, from that point of view, is a huge opportunities for brands to really connect to the customers and really build it, you know, because if we remember how we were made feel, I think it was Angelou, with this American lady who magia Angelou that says, you know, you will forget what happened, but you will never forget how they make you feel? And that’s very, very important. Yeah.
Gregorio Uglioni 16:15
Sure. Thank you very much, Ana Maria, perhaps the last question, because we discussed about NPS and we are trying to discuss about if customer would recommend the company, then I change a bit. The question is, Which company would you recommend to us?
Ana Maria Zumsteg 16:34
I mean, there are so many companies I would recommend, but let me think about experience that made me feel really, really good. stating a little bit back, as we were running the workshops for MPs, I took my first fly with KLM. You know, by the second fly I took with them, they greeted me by my name. They asked me if I was going to have fish like the last time. And you know, and I was just absolutely I fell in love with them. And I felt that I was a person I wasn’t a number. And so I guess over the years that I you know, when I travel, if it was supplied with KLM, I took it and with the time they knew you know what I was doing, and they were asking me about my project. So I fell at home with them. And they have won many prizes for their customers in the city. So and their loyalty program, I don’t they have an excellent CRM. So probably, but this is just coming top of mind. There are many, many companies that have made enormous progress. And they would really deserve for me to talk about them.
Gregorio Uglioni 17:49
I think it’s also good point in time to discuss about airlines, because they are facing quite a lot of challenges. Exactly what you were saying I think it’s key and make that understandable that it’s not always about Super WOW moments, giving you the next flight for free, or giving you a no word, but it’s for small things about saying your name, or knowing your preference. And this is really key today, and it will be also key in future if you’re speaking about personalization of the experiences.
Ana Maria Zumsteg 18:23
Yeah, but I think that’s where, you know, it comes understanding the customer, because for what for me, you know, my account for other people might not, you know, other people might be really looking for the free flight, because that’s their inclination. And I think we have to understand that we are all different individuals. And that’s why when we built our personas, you know, if we, the more we can really stereotype, if you will, the different types of customers and understand them, you know, the better we can cater for that with what they expect of us. And that’s the beauty of what we do. Because it’s not a one hole fit solution. It is very human, it is very broad. And it does need people, you know, it does need employees that are in power. It does need employees that are recognized. You know, and it does need a very clear strategy.
Gregorio Uglioni 19:23
And I would close what with what you’re saying. Thank you very much, Ana Maria again for your time.
Ana Maria Zumsteg 19:30
same to you and all the best take care, stay healthy.
Gregorio Uglioni 19:33
Sure. And also to the audience, ladies and gentlemen, it was a pleasure again, to share some time with you to give you some insights, more than happy to get your feedback. And perhaps you can tell also your colleagues which discussion we are having, and perhaps it’s also interesting. Thank you very much. Take care, bye bye
Ana Maria Zumsteg 19:52
bye. Take care. Bye bye
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