Simplifying Business with Ricardo Saltz Gulko – E68

Simplifying business with Ricardo Saltz Gulko in collaboration with the ECXO Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper

The CX Goalkeeper had the opportunity to interview Ricardo Saltz Gulko

Ricardo’s LinkedIn headline:

Customer & Employee Experience & Customer Success – Services – Data-Driven Transformation, Lead Design & Innovation, Change & Growth – Founder of the European Customer Experience Organization (ECXO)

The game with Ricardo:

  • 00:00 Game Start
  • 1:30 Ricardo Gulko Saltz introduction
  • 5:30 The ECXO
  • 6:59 The Vision of the ECXO
  • 9:40 Simplification in Customer Experience
  • 20:25 How to cope with the increasing complexity
  • 29:15 Ricardo’s book suggestion
  • 31:10 Ricardo’s contact details
  • 32:40 Ricardo’s Golden Nugget

Ricardo Contact details:

Ricardo’s book suggestion:

  • Grow IQ: get smarter about the choices that will make or break your business; Tiffany Bova
  • Experiencing Design: The Innovator’s Journey; Jeanne Liedtka, Karen Hold, and Jessica Eldridge

Ricardo’s Golden Nugget:

“…everything that is complex has a better solution for your company processes, procedures, security, …”

Thank you Ricardo!

#cxgoalkeeper #customerexperience #podcast #leadership

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my YouTube channel


Gregorio Uglioni 0:01
Ladies and gentlemen, today is really a big, big pleasure. I have Ricardo Saltz Gulko together with me. Hi Ricardo, how are you?

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 0:10
Hi, how are you? Thank you very much for having me here. It’s a pleasure to be here with you. And well, the very famous blog podcast that you’re doing is very nice. And thanks also for the collaboration with the ECXO.

Gregorio Uglioni 0:26
Yes, and I am really pleased to have this collaboration with the European customer experience organization. But I know you’re really extremely passionate about customer experience and about your baby, the European customer experience organization. But before I always like to speak to the human, and Ricardo, how is going with the recovery from your surgery?

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 0:52
Thank you very much for asking. So it’s going well as just to take one year and a half until I become able to go again to the gym and do exercise like I did before. So now it’s recovery time at home doing physiotherapy or house becomes like a lab of physiotherapy tools. But thank you so much for asking.

Gregorio Uglioni 1:15
Ricardo, I think I can say that in the name of the old European customer experience organization. Get well soon. We need you you are doing a great job by advertising and publishing what we are doing in in Europe around customer experience. For the less people that don’t know you, could you please introduce yourself?

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 1:36
Sure. So I founded a company that called eglobalis in the end of the day the name means experience global. meaning information size and innovation. And this is more practices is a boutique practice of consulting only serves very large companies. Some people asked me why, and I don’t have an answer for that. But because maybe my experience leading Oracle professional services, as we know, in May around the globe of other companies, so maybe this is the reason they come to me. But rarely, I have a startup I helped actually some startups in Israel and in Berlin, but that was all the history. And often I work with Samsung sap in those kinds of cases, what we found, Volkswagen screwed, nobody understands and is good. And we are trying to help them to simplify experience, and simplify experiences not about making a better chance, or making a better a better digital experience is connected for many different aspects of the internal part of the company that you have liked outside. And I think that’s because mine is what we do transform company’s culture, right, like during the time of COVID, because I could not travel anymore to Korea where I had also apartment because I was working Samsung, what happens that have worked for home. So my work totally changed. So I’m helping them in acquisitions, and making sure that the culture is the right one, and if not how we change those things. So there are so many things. So we help large companies to improve the customer experience to transform culture. And after I’m advisor for C suite, sometimes I’m not and I really don’t care about that. I see the C suite as I see everybody in the company I really don’t care about positions I do and the reason they bring us aboard on board oftentimes is because we really talk with them about cultural creative strategy. We segment of them we do the go to market how depending which which kind of which part of the company we are dealing with. And then we also help them to execute and teach they own people to take that forward in the conference was a lot of work. We are nine people with me as a people in Korea right now. And that’s what to do in very short phrase.

Gregorio Uglioni 4:15
Thank you very much Ricardo and allow myself I know you a bit and you are always doing some jokes and therefore it’s my turn to do some jokes because this is my show. There are some statistics and some papers saying that one of the first word that you said as a small baby was “customer experience” already Is it true?

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 4:35
That’s exactly true. I went to my mom but my dad actually taught me his hands I was a kid that I told him “CX goalkeeper” and that’s really how you know that my mom told you that.

Gregorio Uglioni 4:56
No, I will not allow myself to research in your family because

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 4:59
Only my mom, my dad knows and my dad passed. So my mom should have

Gregorio Uglioni 5:06
a lot of people knows you, Ricardo. But this advantage and disadvantage. Joke by side, thank you very much for your introduction. And you already mentioned what we would like to discuss today. It’s about simplification and customer experience. And I’m really, really thrilled to start the discussion with you. But first of all, I think there is one older baby. And this is the European customer experience organization, that it’s growing extremely fast. I’m not sure if the European customer experience organization is already 18 years old in its maturity. But before discussing about that, you are the founder, why the European customer experience organization?

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 5:51
First of all, I have the idea and do kind of what they call visionaire, I created that. But there are many people that influence the way that we become right now and to future what will become later as we have a roadmap. And so it’s not just me, there are many co founders, many of them ambassadors, a large part of them, influenza, you know, the way we are going through is not my credit I just created I had idea because I thought that we can do better. Yes, and because I live here and I see the experiences that you have me to be often yours and B”C sometimes, but we leave B2C as we all leave B2C so we see all the the absurdities that for people like us, we will observe very, in our very, like, we check everything’s we look different because we have this mind of customer experience, observing all the details, in my experience and experience, even the taxi driver you’re observing him? Yes, is very different. It’s a kind of mindset.

Gregorio Uglioni 6:58
And what is the main goal of the European customer experience organization.

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 7:02
So we created the European customer experience organization. Let me start before that, all the material, everything that you have in the world about business comes from Europe. Obviously, we have great people in Europe that this is obvious. But we are not writers or podcasters. In general, we are doers. We are people busy families who care about family time. And, and this goes to culture in a certain way. In the US who live to work in Europe, you work to live, you know, it’s a very different kind of mindset. So we have more time to think about things that we care about, which is a benefit and you can be much more creative than we are that’s what I believe. And you have great companies here that was not the market itself is not exploring business case that could be created here are so many companies here that are doing great, a great job experience in breach experience in customer experience in ICT innovation simplify many different things related to CX. So the aim of the CX is to create a model European model. And I’m not saying to reinvent the wheel because this is already invented. Okay, I’m not going to have a I did that. No, it’s not like that. We understand that the other people did something very nice as this started with, with refer Joe Pyne, in his first book, that was the book, yes. And this changed everything for everyone because your perception on your book changes about everything’s, and it’s a great book. Therefore it’s 20 years to sell. And in Europe, we don’t have the same approach for further things. And as we always say that the personalization like if iper personalization already is saying that you and me are different even you live you live in my neighbor country as in Schweiz – in Switzerland, and I live in Deutschlag – in Germany, correct. We are neighbors but we are different studios were very different. We have different friends, different things that we do. Even though we are very similar as well as because we have similar languages, etc. So I don’t believe that one fits all. And that’s a basic thing of customer experience.

Gregorio Uglioni 9:36
Thank you, Ricardo and I think this is the key topic that I would like to discuss with you and also to understand a bit better, you are aware very renomed about innovation and simplification, meaning, simplifying and then igniting innovation. What do you understand around simplification in customer experience.

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 10:02
So what is not just to make a chat or to create something that will make… For sure we are we are always focusing in making the life of the call center. Easier, obviously, as everything’s have to be without friction, but free friction sounds strange, but not always as bad. Okay? That’s the people that say, oh, frictionless Yeah, that’s beautiful buzzword but doesn’t work in that way, there are certain friction that are great to have, such as a process, or a procedure that will save people’s lives, for example, right in a factory, you have a lot of those things that you don’t understand why is there no, it actually Volkswagen, you have something very, very nice. So there’s those four balls that move very fast in in the production line. Indeed, if you them to get close those robots, then we’ll be at they have a sensor, like Ito working, and the right way to do a live there, you know, something very rude and very shouting. But this is this is something great wealth well taught. That is friction for them, for sure was a big project to create those those kinds of saving procedures. But it’s very important because if you go close to a homeowner gotta punch your dad that simple like that. So. So simplification is the following in cosmetic experience, what I do, okay, what we do on oftentimes, is to go to companies understand, okay, but I’m not going to explain about that, because we do that all the companies in the world do. So I’m not going to talk about a tell you about simplification. To simplification happen, you have to understand what and how the company works. When a company is large, and stopped to innovate. You need to bring like, a medicine for them to to cure that. And we have examples from one of the biggest, biggest software companies in Germany, which expanded billions of dollars in acquisition for cloud. Okay, Barry, I think more than 200 billion in many years, and I think in 10 years, seven years, because they have they did not have the ability to create their own cloud. So then, the question is, why should you have these amazing company was supposed to be a very innovative company and capable of doing anything in the world. But the problem that the process, how the company inside works was very complex. So people was doing procedures, and they have processes that they even did not understood. What is this for, but they was doing like robots. When you get in a situation like that means something about you as well, you are doing your job closing the holes, but you’re not really thinking about what you’re doing, just getting things done. And we believe in space of thinking because you only bring value, let’s say that he was hired for designer engineer, for example, if he’s only doing enclosing the bugs all the time, for example, okay, you don’t have the time to think of a flat and create new features, new ideas and to discuss, you know, so obviously, data giant gives you many things ureas when you implement a giant design thinking together, but this is the basic principle of simplification. So we have to look for things that will make the lives of the people inside the company easier in order to create first employee experience that this distance will have your time I’m not saying not working, but to have time to think you know, you’re not just to focus in this current relatives that have to do by day. And this is much worse when you’re in the call center or contact center, but I’m not going to go there. So you close those gaps, we improve the system we improve the procedures you kill certain, certain process that company have. And it’s not just that it’s about many different things of technology on that have procedures of governance all the time on that but I’m just giving you a highlight. And then when you improve the way of that when poor he can live his life and work and perform better. You will automatically as everybody knows, you are impacting the outside of the company as the cost or the partners. But before we get to there first you have to work inside the company making easier to live for your employees. Okay, and not seeing frictional mass because frictional losses.

Is a not ideology is kind of emotion. genitori thing, there is a word for that I don’t remember the word right now. But it’s like, my dream, I want to be frictional as like, Yo corporate should be like Amazon doesn’t work in that way, in enterprise technology, because we’re disaster all the time for change requests for adding things, obviously, you can give three features for them to solve his promise to solve the problem, but he’s always asking, so how we are not going to deliver what he’s asking, therefore we have voice of cosmos. Otherwise, we don’t need Cosmos, we’re not going to listen. So everything is connected. So in enterprise technology, it doesn’t matter if it’s harder or softer, or, or whatever it is. You tend to make costumer life easier. But not always possible. People that say no, we can do in one click like cameras, no in technology, in many companies is impossible. And sometimes it’s very good at is impossible, because then you guys have to think, and touching here is going to impact my CRM, or it’s going to impact my forecast. So there are so many processes together, I cannot go with, you know, if I don’t remember how to process is written. But there are so many things that are impacted when you’re touching a software, especially things that are basic ERP, okay, your piece you take everywhere in the company, you touch the CRM, touch, everything’s so we have to think what we’re doing here is great, but not always as possible when you have to leave with that. Therefore, SAP and Oracle are very successful. Because even though we all know that they are complex, in certain ways, they are doing a great job because they are delivering what the customers wants. And that’s the goal. Yeah, it’s not about you is about them. But the partners and what they need, and they are doing that very well, therefore, they are 50 years, each one of them or maybe more even. That’s the idea. Now, when you when when you simply find sides, first are giving space for your employees to create new ideas, to explore new ideas to test new ideas. And a great company for giving example from the ads, my beloved Samsung, Samsung do that very well, they are very fast, they are much more dynamic than Europe. But they are doing that in such a way they have a new product. Now we are testing because we have the old case of air seven, that was the famous putting I was there is a bad memory. And many people are not going to like that I laughed at on that. But that’s really sad. Anyway, but the many the what happens, it was a learning in six months, the company change it, you know, it was amazing for this would happen in any other place in the world, especially here in Europe, I’m very doubted a company could return from such problems that they haven’t seen time. They’re seven, two times versions. And they have all sorts of problems with indictment of the owner of the company or the family. So that was a huge and they lost $20 billion in two weeks plus minus environment stock in stock value. So this is not normal situation. So to cheater so fast, and so well done. That’s pretty much all I can say here. Now just to conclude when you impact insights, the ability of people to create new ideas, okay, make the job better, you are creating the better experience outside. So there is a company actually is a European companies are not going to mention the name basing their acquisitions. They did many acquisitions that have great profitable companies, amazing companies, they acquired founders well. And what they forgot that every different company that they acquired, everybody knows that. So the CEOs was often asking the CEO of this company that there’s European company I’m not going to mention the name about but the pricing here model is so different than this one, and the integration so complex, how it can be part why you don’t have something common between them. If it’s your company, you don’t have to change the company, but you can make something good for everyone as similar to simplifying the perception. And that’s what we work a lot on perceptions of products, and how other people perceive things. So this is a different view. Not many people talks about perception of product perception of experiences, but that’s what I do.

Gregorio Uglioni 19:33
It’s really were interesting and that you mentioned that like perception. I think what what a lot of what you were sharing, it’s about mindset, having the right mindset and create and innovate as quick as possible or based on the on the changes on the market market. You will you mentioned this example of Samsung and I think this was something that they helped them to survive, because if they would Did taken more than six months, then how could could they have coped with it

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 20:06
they changed the management in four months

Gregorio Uglioni 20:09
Exactly. And I think you you’re speaking really from from your heart, and this is what I really like. And the mindset, it’s extremely important. You’re saying, it’s about mindset, it’s about agility. What’s your view? Are we going into direction that the complexity will continuously increase? And therefore, we need to cope with that? Or are we able to do the the change and understand that we need to first simplify instead of bringing new products, new processes and everything on the market? What’s your view?

So that’s a that’s a very nice question. So I wrote an article about complexity, I think, two years ago, talking exactly about this point. So here’s my view of complexity first complex is not a monster is a bad that sometimes you need that. Right. I’ll give you an example of complex that works. And one that doesn’t, but I’m not going to bring that for from b2b are going to bring that from B to C to make it easier, you know, a supermarket chain that cars, Audi, Audi penetrated the marketing England and they have this Tesco. And so some some ways I don’t remember exactly the name. And the amount of the Tesco have 32 ketchups. Think about a guy like me, diabetic type one goes to the supermarket, he wants to buy ketchup today. So he is going to have to read all the all the records thinking the backend

information in the background

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 21:49
information back to understand what to feed that to me, then comes out there and totally disrupted look is a supermarket, not the technology, disrupted market and almost destroyed Tesco. Why? Because they broke trick trick, catch ups of top quality. And you enter there you choose one and you go, you have three options of the best chocolate that you can buy in a very good price. Simple, very simple, nothing fancy there. But they have the ability to buy things in with great quality and great price. And that’s, that’s explain everything’s about about customer experience. Okay, so, complexity. Now, let’s get down to there. There are, as I mentioned, beginning there is complexity that you need to have, okay, like you’re working metal, I don’t know, Matt, I don’t how many hours how many degrades, they warm up iron. But as soon as if they stretch you kill you. So they need complex there to make people secure. As I mentioned before, in my example, works fine. In a company like no other I don’t give examples. I have example that that is public. So I can say so in a company like Samsung, okay, in the s seven. There was certain complex in the governance and the processes that actually created a bad product. Okay. And measuring what I’m saying. So, good, the f7 exploding phone was a consequence of bad processes of administrating a bad design. Okay, because this could be prevented, but was not just only not prevented was repeated. So that was amazing. It was in terms of in a negative way was bad. But too much complexity is bad. But some of them are very good to prevent a situation to prevent that you are going to deliver a bad product or you are going to create experience that is not so good for the Costner Yazan is going to turn them off. Yes. And this comes out to culture in the end of the day. You don’t need technology. That’s what he was. I think we will talk about that today in some point, I think. So technology obviously will help you to create a great experience omni channel and this and CRM. But the point is you don’t really need technology to have a great culture in the company that people are understanding what’s the impact in the growth of the company and having generation Okay? And what they do to Costner is the face of the company because the CEO is not the face the face of the company is the guys interacting the call center or you know, giving the sales professional sales consulting. Also, technology can improve experience but will never solve the promise everything is connected to the culture of the company, how we educate. Okay, and I have a good example. Have that without technology at all. And you’ll be very impressed by this example. In 2005, I arrived it to leaving us I was working there during two years. And I needed something I am diabetic type one. So I needed my pump material that connects my butt. My pump is a plastic. And I was so good in customer experience in 2005, that I didn’t know that you have to call a call center I call it the headquarters of Medtronic. This is a bit see experience, but showed we did not have technology. I call it them in 20 minutes. They took care of me. And the last question that woman told me asked me in Do you need any other thing from us? I told her book is very hard to find a doctor because they have such long lines of diabetic people here. That’s very hard. No problem. We’ll help you in 2440 $40 a rep from us to call you. And I was already scared couriers, because I was living in Germany and living in Israel. So then, you know. Next morning, the woman call me, Mr. Cook. I did not repeat. Remember today we all complain about repetitions as repeat to this. I did talk a bit the Secretary and was the secretary of the vice president. Don’t ask me how I got to her. I just asked the headquarters to get somebody that could help me. That’s what she did. She passed to the Secretary of the Vice President. This woman told me everything that they needed. And in the end of the call, she told me that’s the rep in my region was close to Philadelphia. To me, Mr. Gu Co. And by the way, tomorrow call you have three doctors. Okay.

She in the same day, she sent me the material that I needed. I asked her to do it. Let me give you my quit my credit card. You know, we are so thankful that she’s helped you saving your life in between breakages. No, Mr. buco, we will think that you don’t have your car debt from from our company called Edna in the US. It’s a insurance for insurance. Don’t worry, you will sink for feeds overall, they send me something that call that the value was $200. And all super happy got in the evening, actually. Perfect. Not next, they should call me again. And now you understand where it started depersonalization This is personalization, she went a step further. She, she’s telling me the names of the doctors. I spoke with this doctor, this doctor, this doctor, so I told her please can you say look, this is 2000 pounds? Can you send me this by mail? So should I remember her answer? I don’t like so much to use males. I you know, that was the beginning. I had a hot male in that time. And then she told me the list. And in the end, look what she told me really I don’t care about collision. I don’t care about nothing. You don’t care about collision race. I care if you’re good or bad. That’s what I care about. By the way, this darker Mr. Goku is Jewish. So all thank you very much. I was impressed not because she told me, she recognizes my name is south and everybody doesn’t have se used. But I was impressive because she she talked about that you understand? And I thought, wow, this is really amazing. I never saw something like that. So then I found the article from Don peppers. And he was the first one that wrote people’s minds about personalization. This was personalization without any technology themselves. And today, we’re just repeating that with technology. So culture is the most cultural, in my opinion is the more what makes a company or breaks a company. There are many companies here in Bavaria, and in Germany and know Europe that they have beautiful names all we work for Costner, we do that for our employees. But in good health is not like

Gregorio Uglioni 28:58
I think what you’re saying it’s really a great example. And you said 2005 the topic iper- personalization was not there yet. But I think the difference was performed by a human being to a human being. And the best way is to help each other. And also based on that I would ask you to L pass and ask for a book recommendation from your side, which book would you recommend to the audience that help you during your career?

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 29:27
So many people talk about customer experience, but a forgotten creative cost very scarce you need many different phases, many different things to happen to be a great customer experience. And in the end of the day, the goal of customer experience is grow and having generation no one if they tell that they are working for love. This is not honest. better you Don’t say that. So one of the books that I really like is this one from Tiffany Bova Grow IQ: get smarter about the choices that will make or break your business. Tiffany Bova, she was the the chief of growth or something like that, and go in officer in Salesforce. And I think she’s still like that or she changed her title. And another book I can I can give you today that I just finished reading and I going to come with my list, let me see if I can put that Experiencing Design: The Innovator’s Journey (Jeanne Liedtka, Karen Hold, and Jessica Eldridge). This is not customer experience exactly. Took them seven years but in order to sell carries told me that great book worth to read, you learn something from this, for some people be very basic. But there are such nice things here. And I think is a very good innovators journey. That’s the mindset that they have very different customer experience. But you can connect a lot. I love this book, I will be the first book in my list of this year that I’m preparing now. And I think it’s a great book.

Gregorio Uglioni 31:01
Thank you very much we can do, I think these are two books that we can read during the Christmas break. And

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 31:09
the boring Christmas break.

Gregorio Uglioni 31:11
Exactly. And what’s the best way to connect with you?

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 31:17
LinkedIn or through through my website that we are changing out because looks very old. And always so you know, if you need any Thank you, oh, I’m, I always help companies else depending what they want. But obviously, we always give opinion about things. But the best opinion is not our opinion, the best opinion is wanted to have the data to understand what companies are doing because then you become very theoret. To say to get a string say, Oh, this is better, or this is like that. This is not my job, you know, my job is to understand the really what’s happening and transform or change or improve that that’s the way we do things.

Gregorio Uglioni 32:01
Thank you the candle. And as you mentioned, there is a great ECXO platform that you can subscribe is free of charge. And there are quite a lot of passionate people passionate about customer experience expert ambassadors, where you can really have a really good discussion and get opinions, data and information. And there are quite a lot of really good activity.

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 32:28
Thank you very much for having me here. Pleasure to talk with you. Gregory. Do you have any other question?

Gregorio Uglioni 32:33
I wanted to ask the usual question the golden nugget. And I know that you really like to share golden nuggets. And therefore I am asking what’s something that we discussed or something new, that you would like to share with us, Ricardo?

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 32:54
Let me think about simplification. Remember, everything that is complex has a better solution for your company processes, procedures, security. But the things that are there that still there after 20 years, all the people simply forgot and they are not working properly to give an opinion. Or it is there to protect you or to protect somebody else or to prevent a situation, right like fraud systems that have so many when you have a software of fraud systems, everything is to prevent stealing. So is a very well organized mindset database that you check all the situations into software itself in the database of this is happening. So yeah, the same thing happens when you are simplifying a company. If you simplify a company in the way that you create more agility and flexibility for the employees, you’re going to gain more ideas, we’re going to gain better features or better experience or whatever you want to doing. Okay, product or service doesn’t matter. And this is real, because the goal is to grow, generate habits. And this will help generate habit because they work easy. And the result will be reflected in the costumer in the end of the day. And always think that there’s two ways that you can not only work internally and not work externally, you have to do together. Because if here’s great internally, but experience outside is not reflected what is good inside, something’s wrong. You have always to analyze how you’re delivering experience, and simplification gives you all the tools to analyze them. I hope this helps. I know that’s very shallow because you cannot show that sub presentation showed how to do those things. But here we are talking and I’m having a deep thank you so much.

Gregorio Uglioni 34:57
It was a great pleasure. Thank you very much Ricardo and also from the CX goalkeeper, thank you to the European customer experience organization for giving me such a great opportunity. I am concluding my session of 10 different interviews to outstanding ambassadors, I learned a lot. It was really outstanding. Ricardo, thank you very much. It was really a great pleasure.

Ricardo Saltz Gulko 35:23
Before you go, I am here the rest of us are goalkeepers if you can see that, only for your Gregorio.

Gregorio Uglioni 35:31
Thank you very much Ricardo. And I hope that the audience enjoyed this discussion as much as I did. It was really interesting to get insights about the annual European customer experience organization, but also about business simplification, because because it’s something that we when we need to end on in future. Thank you very much

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