(Replay) The Customer Experience World Games and What Really Matters Most To Customers with Christopher Brooks – E18

Episode released on: April 21st 2021

CX Goalkeeper with Christopher Brooks – S1E18 is about the CXWG and what really matters most to customers Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper

The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Christopher Brooks

LinkedIn Headline: Customer Experience Specialist, Founder of the Customer Experience World Games

My learnings:

  • CXWG2020 ideated by Christopher Brooks in collaboration with Limetropy was a success
  • CXWG 2021 is starting in May 2021

Christopher’s chapter in the book Customer Experience 2 is about measuring behavioral changes

  • There are 25 CX drivers which are able to replicate 90% of the decision-making process
  • The EXQ (Experience Quality) method identifies what customer experiences drive a brand’s customers’ share of category
  • The MILO Matrix helps to prioritize the CX improvements base on a) What matters most to customers b) What the organization is best at delivering. Additionally, it helps to find the drivers that make the customers come back to you because of these drivers (as a key differentiator)

His book suggestion:

  • Customer Empathy, Alex Allwood

Christopher’s gold nugget: “in customer experience we are in service. We are looking to achieve better outcomes for other people, not ourselves, we are not part of the equation”

How to contact Christopher:

Thank you Christopher!

#customerexperience #leadership #innovation #transformation

“we are in service. We are looking to achieve better outcomes for other people, not ourselves, we are not part of the equation” Christopher Brooks on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast

#customerexperience #leadership #cxgoalkeeper #cxtransformation #podcast

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Gregorio Uglioni 0:03
Ladies and gentlemen, it’s great to have Christopher Brooks with me. Hi, Christopher.

Christopher Brooks 0:08
Hi, Gregorio, how are you?

Gregorio Uglioni 0:10
Thank you. And thank you very much for being here. It’s really a great opportunity to have you on this podcast. We collaborate several times through the customer experience war games, and so on. I was on your podcast and it’s a great pleasure to have you on my podcast for the people that perhaps don’t you don’t know you very well. Could you please introduce yourself?

Christopher Brooks 0:32
Yeah, sure, though, thanks for inviting me, it’s yours. I’m loving your your content, it’s great to be a part of it. So my name is Christopher Brooks, I head up a consultancy, CX consultancy called Clientship, working with a number of organizations across the world looking at all aspects of customer trends, centric transformation. I also am very active in the CX community, big fan of giving more than you get, it seems to work. And really love to see kind of the progress in others as my reward is kind of my motto, which has meant some interesting initiatives, being involved in in, in books collaborating in books, setting up something called the customer experience World Games, which I know you’re a part of will no doubt talk about. And and also other kind of, I do quite a bit of coaching and mentoring, as well for individuals who put their hand up and say, Can you help? So yeah, all good stuff.

Gregorio Uglioni 1:30
Yes, I can confirm that. And you said something like, I want to give more than what I get. And I want really to say also on this podcast, I was part of the customer experience war game 2020. It was an outstanding experience, we are going to discuss about experiences. But it’s really the best experience I’ve had in 2020. It was great. From three points of view, the number one the people, because I learned quite a lot of new people. And it was really a great team. I was part of the ambassador with with Jonathan Daniels. It was really, really great people, outstanding minds, great minds. And and what the second one, the second point for me irrelevant is I learned a lot, I am for sure now better at customer experience, after going through this customer experience war game, because it was really, really good to work together experts from all around the world, with people from from different countries, and what’s really good. And for sure, also the purpose of the customer experience war games, for charity purposes or their fundraising, to support the surge of people. And so it was or SMEs and so on. It was really a great, great experience. Thank you very much, please. Also, officially I want I want to say that

Christopher Brooks 2:48
that’s very kind of I mean, it’s great to hear those things. The first, you mentioned the kind of the softer benefits, so we never really thought about when it happened, we thought you know, if we can help some, some courses, that will be great. So it’s just wonderful to hear you talking so positively about it. But what I would say and I say this all the time is that it was just an idea. It was an idea. And it really is like starting a long race and just handing the baton over. And it was you know, people like yourself who said, Hey, let me run with this. And, you know, I mean, very kind of you to say it was a great experience, we were making it up as we went along. And at the end of the day, people who were playing still meet up, which is great, and encouraged us to do it again. So yeah, that for me is extremely fulfilling. That’s my reward.

Gregorio Uglioni 3:37
Yes. And I can confirm that. I’m not sure in two weeks, I’m going to have a digital meeting with the ambassadors still one year after, but we are still meeting. It’s really great. But let’s really go to the customer experience wargames. How did you came to this idea? And what are the plans around customer experience work games,

Christopher Brooks 3:58
but it all starts so we’re involved heavily with a voice of the customer platform called Limetropy, we sort of were looking at what organizations were up to it, it functions for saying, look, we’ve got a lot of changes going through because of lockdown. And it sort of became evident that our own clients needed support as well. So we were helping them as much as we possibly could. And then at the same time, I was looking and seeing that there were individuals who I associate with who looked slightly lost about what the future of CX meant for them. So you know, we got the technology, there’s not going to be lots of activity going on new activity, and consultants kind of going, what do I do next? And I just had this concept of just playing some games having some religious so you might have called you up and said, Look, I’m going to create a fictitious scenario and let’s just try and solve it. How does that see people? Yeah, that’s kind of sounds okay. And then I remembered I’d seen a guy called Jamie McDonald who runs a superhero Foundation, and Jamie’s dedicated his life in service of others. See, what he does though he realized is that people who, parents who have children who are not well, they get so much more out of it. And the fundraising is much better if they are invested in it themselves, rather than getting, you know, other people to raise the money. If they do it themselves. It’s so much more fulfilling. And I love this idea. And I kind of called him up and said, Look, we’re doing these games be great to get you involved in some respect, you know? What about it kind of just came on the phone call, if we get something for you. And he went, Oh, man, that would be great. But I’ve got a little eight year old boy called Dylan is not very well, and he had a charity fundraiser planned outside can’t happen. But his brain tumors still growing? Can you help him and it was like we weren’t as it wasn’t expecting that back. And then it all of a sudden became, we can do this, but let’s turn it into a game. Let’s make it fun for people to take part in. And let’s make this the first of a number of challenges. And then the layer sort of happened, you know, spoke to some good people like Jonathan Daniels, and James Dodkins and Adrian Swiscoe, and Heidi Stone, and they said, hey, yeah, we’ll get involved, we’ll be captains. And before we knew it, we’d built it up. It was called customer experience World Games. We had 175 people playing from 35 different countries around the world. So it was random. You didn’t know who you’re going to be put with. It could be very odd timezones, we’re sorry about that, but we didn’t really think about it. It could have been, you know, the the Head of Customer experience versus a UX designer, it could be someone in banking, playing with someone in a retail supermarket. So it was very mixed diversity of people, which worked, it really works. And what we found this work, Gregorio was the right sort of people come and I don’t say that disrespectfully, because it was a volunteer operation, you needed to not think about the short term gain, you needed to think about creating better outcomes for other people. That’s all that mattered. And the byproducts the fact that people learn like yourself, they got to meet with other people was never part of our thinking. But we’re so grateful that did actually get get delivered. And at the end of it, we had a number of challenges solved, we had. Do you remember, we had a high street retailer, a cafe, had it had a challenge, we had a company that were looking at wearables for children to measure social distancing and washing, we had a bus company where the bus drivers were kind of left, and they needed an employee experience program. And then we also finished with a focus on our own industry and an events company that was struggling because everything had shut down. And when we completed it, everyone said do it again. So we kind of went absolutely, we got to do it again. So we’re in 2021. Now, and we’re off and running once again.

Gregorio Uglioni 7:50
And I think that’s the best thing to hear. Because it’s really what you are seeing and we are feeling getting the passion that you have about this topic. It was really great. And what you said only to mention one topic, it’s about the diversity of the mentality, people coming from different industries from different countries, and the UX designer, helping the customer experience, Head of Customer Experience, together with somebody in consulting, putting their skills and make them available for the teams in order to create amazing experience for this customer. And it was really, really outstanding. Now I saw that you are running the customer experience working in 2021. In Latin America is correct.

Christopher Brooks 8:37
Yeah. So we got approached by CXGO, who were a an association in South America. And they said to us, we’d like to have a go at doing the games. And okay, this sounds interesting. So we met up with the guys and said, you know, well, why don’t we create a Latin edition. So we we said, we’ll create a game that’s played in Spanish. And that’s exactly what we’ve gone ahead and done. We’ve actually got 165 players from 17 different countries, there are seven teams, they’ve just solved a problem for a Mexican micro business, they’re now off to the Dominican Republic to look at a patient care challenge. And they’re absolutely loving it and they’re really I mean, they’re just giving it their all and what’s great about it is I’m seeing it all again now on the positive banter, you know, we’re gonna be better than you were gonna be better No, we got the best ideas, but they’ve also taken it on a bit further. So they’ve introduced a concept of actually video recording the the entries, so all the captions play back the entry, so all of the players get to hear firsthand what everyone’s submitted. We’ve got some great judges, we’ve got professor of CX from Chile, Patricia Goodmans involved, I’m getting to judge this time, which is great for me. And it’s and it’s great and it’s you know, it’s to know that it’s coming work in different regions is great. We’ve been approached to run our student version of it later in the year. And we now know that we can drop it into a region and it kind of works. So, you know, the spirit of continuous improvement, we’ve learned some things last year to build upon it, it is still exactly the, it’s not even set up as a not for profits. It’s just a volunteer thing. So we recognize people give their time and their talent, they give a lot of talent, they give as much time as they can afford. And we, we don’t need to say this, I think anymore, but we just say to people, just leave your business card at the door. Yeah, come in, and then you’ll get so much more out of it just share openly take back in. And we’ve now created with the Latin games, we’ve got over 50 entries to case studies of how to do. And anyone who plays in the games gets access to the entire library. So it’s theirs to take away. And and it’s great. And it’s great to see it kind of working in Latin.

Gregorio Uglioni 11:00
Yes. And do you already have plans about having another? Let’s say global version?

Christopher Brooks 11:06
Yeah, we’re coming again. So last year, we did it I think in March, because it coincided we locked down. We’re gonna go after the Holy weeks in early April. So we’re gonna go to the middle of April. And we’re doing another worldwide games. So we’ve already started to recruit some captains and our judges, I’m delighted to announce that Dr. Professor Phil Klaus is going to be a head judge again. So he’s come on board, some of our captains from last year are going to become judges themselves. We’ve got some new captains coming on board. And we’ve got some incredible challenges. So we’ve we’ve got challenges coming in from the US, we’ve got challenges coming in from Pakistan, challenges from from Europe. And I think this year, pretty much all of them are going to be focused on charities or social quarters, social causes, or community causes, that’s really important. But there’s a couple of additional things we’re adding to the game this year, which I’m very excited about. The first is we’re going to include a masterclass series. So on the basis that everyone loved learning last year, what we’re going to create is a number of masterclass sessions for people to learn from. But they’re not going to be run by the people, you typically would think we’re opening it up to those who are out of work, and are seeking an opportunity to share with others, how great they are at what they do. So you know all that all those of us who are able to command a wage for what we do. And we can enjoy the talents of these individuals. And remember, you know, there’s very little between us and them, they’re just, you know, it’s just unfortunate situation. So we’ve got some incredible quality individuals who are going to be there giving masterclasses so that’s one thing that’s different. And then the second thing that’s different, and this was not my idea to send the incredible Heidi stone, as suggested that we’re going to create a program that lasts after the games. So for each of the challenges, we’re going to invite three people to volunteer time for the for the six months after the games, to take the ideas and help them come to life for the organization’s because one of the things that we’re very guilty of in customer experience is kind of doing the job and walking away. And sometimes that doesn’t mean it happens. So we’re going to stay around with the challenges. And we’re going to ask people to give up time, if they wish, not everyone will be able to but those who can to stay in become kind of very special envoys for the Sixth World Games, and then we can go back and share with everyone the progress that was made at the game. So because we really do want to make a difference is, you know, it’s very important to do that. And there’ll be a few other interesting pieces coming out. But yeah, there there are. Oh, the guys, you know, other guys, I know you do the Neil Tov and Paul Carrington from the fireside chats without our phone. They run their podcast, they are going to be our sports commentators throughout the games. So they’re going to set themselves up. And we’ll have a number of kind of LinkedIn, live sessions, etc, throughout the games, where there’ll be interviewing players and captains and challengers, so we’ll have a real kind of rapport going throughout the game. So we want to make it really sociable, really fun. Attract a more diverse audience than we did last time. And yeah, hopefully everyone will get a lot out of it this time, as well.

Gregorio Uglioni 14:31
Sure. And I would say I officially apply to participate.

Christopher Brooks 14:34
Excellent, excellent. You’re my you’re my first wish list entry. So thank you so much. I know you’ve gotten a lot out of it last year, and you gave an awful lot as well. So I think you’re kind of a role model for what we like in the game. So thank you for being a part of it.

Gregorio Uglioni 14:49
Thank you very much, Christopher. And really, the only thing that I can say about this customer experience work games is great minds created great experience and it’s what you’re doing and And I was expecting improvement, not such big improvements. And it’s cool to hear that it’s really nice, you are raising the bar, and really happy to participate. And if we can help also from from a charity point of view with our time that it’s our most important asset more than happy to do that.

Christopher Brooks 15:18
Great. Great. Thank you.

Gregorio Uglioni 15:19
I would like to touch base on another topic with you, Christopher, you wrote an outstanding chapter on customer experience to last year and I was really enlightened, because we had we discussed about this matrix, you have another view on the on this valuated matrix. Could you please elaborate? How did you create this chapter was about?

Christopher Brooks 15:43
So I will interestingly, it started on a point of plagiarism. So I was talking about measuring behavioral change, and how important it was to not focus on perceptive measures like satisfaction, etc. And I got a phone call from Dr. Professor Phil Klaus, who was at Cranfield at the time. And he said, Hey, I understand you are plagiarizing my work. Oh, my God, what have I done? Why don’t we go, Hey, we were chatting and kind of, you know, he, he kind of said, you know, said it half jokingly, but he probed a bit and realize it wasn’t the case, I just was completely aligned with his way of thinking, and I’ve never come across him before. This was about seven or eight years ago now. And he said, Let me tell you about my studies and the work I’ve been doing. And basically, he unlocked this incredible treasure trove of research and shared with me, the studies that have been doing to identify that there are a certain number of behavioral drivers, which influence a significant proportion of our decision making. And because their actual changes, as opposed to I tell you, I’m going to recommend you to someone else, or my sentiment says, and I’m satisfied, but it could change. These are things that were one state and became a new state. They’re 100% reliable. And it was incredible. The more I looked at the study, the more I understood, it worked out that 90% of all decision making could be attributed to 25 behavioral changes. And those 25 behavioral changes when you spoke to customers, they could brilliantly articulate them as customer experiences. So Oh, my God. Now the thing that I feel had, he’s an incredible brain. And he’s still, to me, the world’s best academic customer experience. And someone I will always be indebted to for, for helping me to see the the good path to follow. But it’s a very spiky language. It’s a very academic language. So we work to kind of convert it into something that businesses could understand. And we go back, and we work with those businesses in association with the work that field does. And they love it, because they have something measurable. Now, this is where we were before, these are the things we needed to change. And this is where we go now. Now Phil’s work has actually allowed him to identify the revenue gain the share of the return on investment. So if you need to make it commercial, you can, you don’t chase a, you know, your prize is not a number, it actually becomes almost like a statement. You know, this is where we were, this is where we want to be. And it gives the correct focus. So I’ve been very blessed to work with that. I’ve seen it work in many countries, many industries. And that was what the basis of the book, I wanted to get that across Philidor written that really written a book called customer experience measurement. And it was the science of how you do it, I wanted to bring it to life in terms of practically how it would work in an organization. And also then add to it, this idea of we call it the Milo matrix, which is about how you prioritize what you’re going to focus in on. And it’s and I think I’ve coined vim from your value impact matrix. It’s a similar kind of proposition or premise, it kind of says, you know, what matters most to customers. And we know that from the study, and what the organization is best at delivering. And therefore you end up with these four quadrants, and therefore different strategies in terms of how you take your customers, your customer experience improvements forward. So that’s the premise of it, it’s the science, but we kind of you know, we put it under the bonnet, and you just look at this lovely, shiny purring car, you don’t worry about what’s under the bonnet. And then we create a framework which allows you to understand where to sort of focus and, and thank you for saying that. I mean, I’ve had some really delightful feedback. I mean, it’s a it’s a chapter amongst 22 And this stumbled Brilliant stuff in there. But yeah, I must have had I don’t know a dozen notes come back on LinkedIn to say, oh my god, this is just so helpful. So it’s great to know that in a publication like that, you you do manage to get standout and I understand customer experience too is going to be surpassed by customers experience three, which you are contributing towards as well as that correct?

Gregorio Uglioni 19:53
Yes, correct. Our release date is the 25th of March. We are working we are 28 term autos. And I had the chance to have a look at several chapter it’s really an outstanding book I’m really looking forward for for the release date. But let’s go back to customer experience too, because it was also an invoke. And based on the fact that you are on the show on this podcast, I am really keen to get some additional insight about what what you explained. First of all, you were speaking about these behaviors, behavioral changes, you mentioned 2015 different behaviors. Could you make perhaps some examples of exactly more tangible, of course.

Christopher Brooks 20:39
And what I’ll say is, it starts off with 300 behavioral drivers, or 300, drivers account for 100% of our decision making. So you can imagine why we end up with something like satisfaction or net promoter score, because you can’t ask someone, and they can’t answer correctly against 300 drivers. For what field on overtime was to look and see what what are the what are the ones that are coming up more often. And what you found, it was actually things that we talked about in customer experience a lot. So the way you resolve an issue, you the way you manage my expectations, the consistency in the way that you deliver things. So these were things that were coming out as being demonstrations of when you do this? Well, I commit more to you, when you don’t do this, well, I commit less to you. And what we actually were asking was, what’s important to you, in this list, what’s important to this particular category that we’re talking about now. And the reason I say category, because what we found is, let’s say it was supermarkets. Okay? It wouldn’t matter. If I asked you about car four. Or if I asked you about your law clerk in France, it wouldn’t matter. If I asked you about InterNACHI. The variance between the category and the individual supermarkets didn’t matter. What did matter, was I asked you what your share of wallet was what the share of contribution you give to each of these, because that’s the that was a greater influence. So I will tell you what matters. And in my mind, I can’t think what matters between inter marchais. And what matters between ILA clerk, but I know how much I spend in these places. And that may be the that would then became the driver of actually understanding the difference. Now, the beauty of that is, and this is how it differs massively from some of the perceptive measures like satisfaction, you don’t ask and satisfaction, how satisfied are you with the competitors. But with E, this model is called EXQ. Experience quality measure. What it lets you do is to say, these are the things that are important to brand A, these things that were important to the customers who give the most these are what matters to brand B, brand C and brand D. Another big difference here is that you actually give more authority and more prioritization to the customers who give you more share of category. We standard measures, like advocacy and satisfaction. You don’t know what that is so Gregorio, you may well be what is your football team is similar in AC Milan, okay, so you may well have a season ticket of AC Milan. And you might go all the time. And you tell them, you know, actually, I’d be coming here. So often, I got really fed up with the quality of the food, the food is not very good. And you’re asked about it, and you give a four out of 10 I pop along once I come from England, the food in England is lousy, I go to Italy, I go to Milan, I go, Oh my God, this food is amazing. I’ll give you a 10. Now, in a normal study, we are equal. Isn’t that crazy? Is that crazy? So actually the excuse to say no, no, Christopher, your your thank you for your feedback. But it’s not important compared to Gregorio who comes all of the time. And it therefore gives these these these weightings in there, give it real meaning and purpose. So what you find is that, at the top of the list, you have some of the drivers, everyone has to deliver these everyone does. And on the matrix, you then kind of recognize our we shouldn’t include that one because this is expected it will be like saying the car brakes work. It’s like we’ll do that we will have to have good car breaks. Or but you know, if you a good example is in the modern world, we’re in a click and collect or home delivery service

to 2019 16% of organizations had 120 into 2020 71% Had it So no longer is it you know an opportunity to have an advantage is something you have to do. But as you walk down these particular drivers, you might find one that is only important to your customers and not important to the others. That’s your point of difference. So now with customer experience, you can identify what your brand distinction is. This is What makes our customers come back to us, because of the experience versus the others. So it becomes a really powerful tool to help you understand how to prioritize, though the bottom of the list will be the things that actually and you find this, say 10, or 15, drivers might account for 20% of decision making. And what we normally find is that’s where organizations focus their efforts. And we say, why are you doing this, your customers are saying me, it’s not important to us, stop doing it or manage it out or become more efficient. That’s where automation works. That’s where efficiency works. But invariably, what happens is, is the top that people put the automation against the efficiency against, and what are they doing, they’re eroding their differentiation that they can get from their customer experience. So I found an incredibly powerful tool, really enlightening, and clients who kind of work with it, go, Oh, my God, this is so useful. And you can go back and find in what you really want to get to is, we as consumers are pretty lousy at working out what matters most to us. So you want as an organization, you want to be able to land on very few things that customers remember you for. So the more you stop investing in the things that don’t matter, and focus your effort in the things that do, the easier it is for customers to say there are three or four things that represent 60% of the reason I come to you. They’re the reasons I really come to you. And you then get greater distinction from your competition. So adds a real competitive advantage. We work with one particular international organization, and you run the study probably every 18 months, two years, because you need to go away and make the changes. And we weren’t, we’re now kind of year six with them. And the significant change they’ve got is that when we first started working with them, they were we position present clients as either they’re either preservers, so they’re just doing what they need to get by transformers. So there’s evidence they’re going in the right direction or then they’re Vanguards, few get to kind of Vanguard level. But this organization was a preserver. And it’s at the top end of transformation after kind of five years. So they are now got to a point where customer centricity is becoming a lead discipline in the organization. Because they’re hearing that the things that they were told to focus on, have turned out to be the most important to the customer. And the more they spend time and effort on it, and the more they don’t invest in the things that they thought were important that the customer said one, then the greater the return. And the more they’re recognized for the distinction in customer experience, which is something they can own. Because the other thing is they have a price product availability, they’re commoditized. So they’ve now got this true competitive advantage. So as I say, it’s a wonderful piece, I get great joy working with IX Q, I love seeing it come back, no two companies are the same. So you get a unique DNA is original. And that’s lovely, we blend what we see in terms of what matters most of the customers with the brand values. And it means therefore, you know, Netflix, HBO, they can have different things because their own values are brought into it. And it means that your customers then come to you for the things that matter most. But you present them in a way that only your brain can do it. So you can imagine your competitor sitting around go, we can do that. And someone says, No, we can’t, because we’re not there. So it gives you real ownership. And I think that’s one of the things we don’t always get in customer experience is you have to own up when if you want to do something, you can own it, Disney could own opening a car park barrier in a car park, they could do it in a way that IKEA couldn’t in a way that Ritz Carlton couldn’t all of them could if it really mattered most, that particular experience, which could be in a kind of freedom, access and freedom, then they could do that in a distinct way. So yeah, it’s a great piece. Gregorio and, you know, I’ve been encouraging people more and more people to look at it. The Nemesis is is quite complicated. You know, and sometimes we don’t, we don’t see complication as good in customer experience, we want easy and easy, invariably means you you’re going to be eroding some quality somewhere.

Gregorio Uglioni 29:16
Sure, I fully agree. And I could start now speaking about everything what you said. But the points that that I would like to mention, one is that it took six years to get there. And this is the time that also, for example, en Golding is saying that it takes to a company to have really a customer centric transformation and to really be customer focused. It’s not something that it’s mandated from the board of director now do that in three months. We speak again and your customer centric, but it’s related to quite a lot of other different points. And the the example that you mentioned, I like it really very much. This my view perhaps is the wrong view. But the barrier opening up I would have also different expectation from Ikea Disney and Ritz Carlton out the open that if I think about the Kia is something different than if I would think about Ritz Carlton. And this is based on my previous experiences, and also my perceptions on a brand. And that’s what you mentioned putting the brand together. And

Christopher Brooks 30:21
sort of you get there, when you get it can be so powerful. So I’ll give a good example, I won’t name the client, but we work with a number of universities. And there’s you know, this, you could say, well, actually, it’s a, it’s a car pop barrier does it really matter. But actually, when you understand what matters most to your customers, if they articulate that as an example, or something close to it, then it matters to them. And you should think about it. And a good example, university was I remember going in to see the particular university and they the person who was taking me in, said, as I was going through the door to this person coming all the way stop, we’ve got a visitor coming through, though I just got my first day I was a bit uncomfortable, I went through who was that? Student, so okay, and it kind of locked into me straight away student. And then another time we did a we’re doing a piece looking at maintenance and things and talking to the team who go round, and they just bang on the door, open the door, come to fix your light bulb. And both of those experiences were really, really poor for students. And the problem we kind of identified was the thing that mattered most was the recognition that these were not students, we changed the perception, these were leaders of the future. If I see a leader of the future coming towards me, I open the door for them every single time. If I’m going, I’m not going to put a light bulb when I’m putting light, illuminating some incredible document that potentially could change the future. And just that slight subtle understanding of what mattered most completely changed it. And I’m glad to say that if you do go to this particular institution, now then when the door is opened, is that we it gets held open for students, and they come through and they’ve done a million other things. In fact, they’ve won in all sorts of awards for their, their Student Experience Program. And and it’s really important to kind of understand what matters most, but then fuse it with your brand and this particular institution, it produces a lot of leaders of the future. So it was important that they did actually recognize in every touchpoint that’s what you’re about. So whether it’s a carpark barrier, whether it’s opening a door, there’s a great analogy I use and apologies if it’s lost on you. I think in Italy, you have a an air foot and Air Force display team. Is that correct? With the Jets? Yes, yep, that’d be one of the world’s best don’t you in in Italy, and the UK has one as well called the red arrows. Now, what’s not so known is the red arrows. They are in all of the blue arrows. And the blue arrows are the ground team, the ground team that make them look good. And it is only because of the blue arrows. And that’s why they share the name the arrows, that the red arrows look so good. In fact, when the red arrows land, the first thing they do is they form an arch. And they applaud the blue arrows, the blue arrows walk through, and they make them realize they’re absolutely fundamental. And I think that sometimes we forget that in terms of brand distinction, we just put it on the cherry on the cake or the icing on the cake. But actually, the cake will be differentiated by the taste of the cake. And that’s how you cook it, how you prepare the ingredients and what you put into it. That’s where the brand lives. So for me, customer centricity is a real opportunity to evolve to the next level and become you know, brand centric, but to your point, it takes time. And you know, you can’t, you can’t necessarily get there overnight. And if you do go for a headline, experience, it’s very brand centric. People will look at it and say the analogy with a car. Porsche, for instance, where we push, and you have to turn the water bottles into the dealership to or be facing the same way. So all precision all the way through quality of the materials, if you do all of that, but then when you drive out, the thing won’t start. You’re not going to have customers hanging around for very long. So you’ve got to do the basics as well. It’s really important to do that.

Gregorio Uglioni 34:20
Sure. Thank you very much, Christopher. It was an outstanding discussion. But now it’s time to learn a bit more about you and we know that you are very active in the customer experience award with all what you’re doing and so on. How can you ensure to have a good work life balance or life work balance?

Christopher Brooks 34:39
Okay, question. Well, I’m very fortunate I am a cub leader. So I get to spend a lot of my time thinking about how to help young children aged between eight and 10 and a half, develop and grow. The scouting movement has a great program, which I love being a part of I get to spend in time in the outdoors developing skills, techniques and badges. And I’ve been doing that for about five years now. So I’ve had many kind of cubs go through the, through the program, that’s a great release. For me, I really enjoy spending time in that space. And it is important to have those kinds of those balances. Children who do very different things, one is an incredibly good hockey player. So I get a lot of enjoyment watching him play hockey, he’s very young, he’s only 14, but he plays for a very high level mainstream. So it’s great to be a part of that. And my other son is very much into his arts and crafts and creativity. So, you know, there’s nothing better than kind of rolling your sleeves up and making a snail out of crepe paper or something like that. So, so those things I really enjoy as well, they take me away from the world we’re in. And it means that when I’m in this world, I can be completely committed to it.

Gregorio Uglioni 35:55
That’s, that’s, that’s really very nice. It’s family time, and also been been with the family. And perhaps if we are not speaking about customer experience, too, and customer experience through the books, because these are great books we are all aware of, is there a book that you would suggest to the audience or a book that you say I’m reading it, and I would like to suggest that

Christopher Brooks 36:16
we set up the Limetropy CX expert club, and every month we invite a guest author in so I think probably what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna reflect the last book we had in there, which is Alex Howard and customer empathy. It’s an incredible book, she’s lovely lady, really nice lady. And it’s all about the human experience. It’s all about understanding how to read it’s a, it’s an easy word to use empathy, really easy, and it’s dangerously used as well. But she talks about, you know, kind of how to be really authentic about it. And she gives some great examples. So she gives an example of wherever your home should get the book, but a president who, you know, first thing he did was to spend a lot of time looking at all the feedback from the civilians, and insisted that every member of staff did the same thing. So before they knew it, they didn’t need the analysts, they don’t have the answers or what they needed to focus and prioritize on. So she’s got some great examples in the book from other organizations. And she’s also got a great section at the back, which is sort of 20 ways in which you can start to build customer empathy in your organization. It’s a lovely read. And you can just hear her coming off the pages, the passion in the topic. So yeah, on the basis, I’ve read that one last, and I really loved it, and everyone who reviewed it with us loved it as well, I’d recommend that book.

Gregorio Uglioni 37:30
Thank you very much. And I had the chance to watch the video, about Adrian Swinscoe. The last the second to discussed and this is really a cool one. And and and I think it was really a good good discussion.

Christopher Brooks 37:46
We love we love punk CX, like small little rabbit punches. But do this, do this, do this, do this, you know, it kind of keeps challenging you. In fact, when we had Adrian on, the last thing he said was, you know, I’m going to set a challenge for you guys create a fun complaint process. And I Yes, that’s just as Adrian all over, it’s just great fun, you know, oh, okay, that’s interesting.

Gregorio Uglioni 38:10
Perhaps, somebody from the audience that would like to connect with you, what’s the best way to connect with you?

Christopher Brooks 38:16
Sure. You can reach me on LinkedIn, Christopher Brooks, you can come to the Clientship website to find me if you want to. Or if you want to sign up for the games, you need to go to Limetropy.com. There’s a tab that says customer experience World Games, and register and then you’re in the loop. And you’ll be you’ll be part of the games going forward.

Gregorio Uglioni 38:37
Thank you, Christopher. And the very last question is your golden nugget. It’s something that we discussed or something new that you want to share to the audience that you want to leave to the audience.

Christopher Brooks 38:48
I think it’s probably that point around remembering in customer experience. We’re in service of other people, we’re looking to achieve better outcomes for other people, not ourselves. We’re not in the equation. So if you feel that what you’re doing is serving you rather than others. Just stop and think to yourself, where am I compromising because someone else is losing out? If you’re gaining. If you can focus on delivering for other people first, then what you’ll find is that eventually, everyone around the table is benefiting and keep going when you think about who other people are customers, employees, supply chain partners, communities, society, even your competitors. Now that seems odd. But if you can make things so much better that your competitors go, oh my goodness, we’ve got to up our game to stay in the market, then you’re truly delivering awesome customer experience.

Gregorio Uglioni 39:53
Thank you very much, Christopher. As usual, I’m not commenting you’re golden nugget because it’s your golden nugget. The only thing that I want to say is thank you very much Christopher for being here. It was a great pleasure.

Christopher Brooks 40:05
Gregorio is always a pleasure talking to you. And I wish you all the best with the continuation of this series. I look forward to hearing other people. And thank you for inviting me on once again.

Gregorio Uglioni 40:15
Thank you very much, Christopher. And thank you very much to the audience. It was to be a pleasure. I hope that you enjoyed as much as I enjoyed that.

Thank you very much. Bye bye!

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