Delivering WOW Through Service with Ryo Zsun from Zappos – E73

Episode released on: May 8, 2022

Delivering WOW Through Service with Ryo Zsun from Zappos Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper

The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Ryo Zsun

LinkedIn Headline: The Culture Maestro at Zappos | Speaker | Company Culture | Customer Experience

Highlights:

  • 00:00 Game Start
  • 01:00 Ryo’s introduction
  • 02:30 Ryo’s values
  • 03:38 Why are you working for Zappos?
  • 06:22 What motivate you and all the Zapponians to deliver WOW every day?
  • 07:40 How you wow-ed your customers? (internal example)
  • 10:08 The definition of Service Excellence
  • 11:30 First Customer Service example
  • 13:50 Second customer Service example
  • 15:20 Third customer Service example
  • 16:15 Fourth customer Service example
  • 17:33 Fifth customer Service example
  • 17:40 Sixth customer Service example
  • 18:45 Why calling Zappos?
  • 20:15 Is there a next level in service for Zappos?
  • 22:41 The future of Customer Service
  • 24:15 Book Suggestion
  • 26:41 Ryo’s contact details
  • 27:45 Ryo’s Golden Nugget
  • 28:41 End of the Game

Selected quotes:

… and much more

Ryo’s Contact Details:

His book suggestion:

  • Start with Why by Simon Sinek

Ryo’s Golden Nuggets:

“…if I had to give you a thought to put in your mind, ask yourself… How will I Wow today?”

“…if I had to give you a thought to put in your mind, ask yourself… How will I Wow today?” Ryo Zsun from @Zappos on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast

#customerexperience #leadership #cxgoalkeeper #cxtransformation #podcast #zappos #wow

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Transcription:

Gregorio Uglioni 00:00
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the CX goalkeeper podcast. Your host, Gregorio Uglioni, will have small discussion with experts, thought leaders and friends on customer experience, transformation, innovation and leadership. I hope you will enjoy the next episode, Ladies and gentleman tonight, it’s really a big, big pleasure, I would say the biggest pleasure that I have in my experience as a cx goalkeeper on my podcast, I have a Ryo Zsun from Zappos. The company when you are speaking about customer experience. Hi Ryo, how are you?

Ryo Zsun 00:43
hi from Vegas are doing fine, thank you, Gregorio for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Gregorio Uglioni 00:49
It’s a great pleasure, also, from my side to have you on my podcast, and I am 100% Sure you will spread happyness to my audience tonight. But let’s really start because if I have you, every moment, every single moment that I am speaking, I’m taking away time, from your time speak time. And therefore let’s start asking some question that you can introduce yourself. And then we can speak about Zappos. And the first question is, could you please introduce yourself.

Ryo Zsun 01:23
So I’m a local Island boy from Hawaii. And I’ve spent the past several years in the hospitality or customer service industry. In fact, I work mainly in the coffee industry working with some very famous well known coffee companies. And I’m from Hawaii, because we are the only US state that grows the most smoothies coffee in the world. And so I’ve always stayed in that realm, because I always loved the idea of creating experiences that make people happy. And I think that’s why I’ve always stayed in that industry. So that’s pretty much me in a little nutshell. Oh, and I, I like to play music sometimes, too. So

Gregorio Uglioni 02:01
that’s really nice. Which which instrument?

Ryo Zsun 02:04
I play ukulele and piano as well.

Gregorio Uglioni 02:07
Oh, that’s, that’s very nice. In the office or at home?

Ryo Zsun 02:12
Both actually. So we have a Zappos choir here at Zappos. So there have been times when I jumped on the piano to play music for someone performing. And sometimes a very random on my ukulele, I’ll just play it in the lobby, just for funsies. Really?

Gregorio Uglioni 02:28
No, that’s, that’s very nice, because I saw one really nice video with Zappos employees playing all together music, and therefore I asked, because I think it’s very nice that you can align what you’re doing also at home in the office, but this is the culture of Zappos, before we start speaking about Zappos, perhaps real Could you share with us which are the values that drive us in life.

Ryo Zsun 02:55
So I was very fortunate to grow up in Hawaii, and we have something called the aloha spirit. And that’s something that’s very ingrained in a lot of folks who live in Hawaii, it’s just truly love is encompasses the word Aloha, doing good to others can compasses that, and it was the kind of lifestyle that we had, if we do anything with anybody. We want to make sure that we do it with our heart, and it’s meaningful. And because of that background, and I like to say my grandmother raised me right, that I carried that legacy through my life through moving forward. And so I think that played a lot into why I chose the world of work that I’ve been doing in my careers over the past 25 plus years.

Gregorio Uglioni 03:38
And I think if you are happy, then you are positively motivated, and you can positively influence your customers. And I think we are already going into into the discussion and that you share with us some things about about that pose. And the first question is, why are you working for examples? Why did you decide to work for Zappos?

Ryo Zsun 04:03
If I was to sum it all up, it’s definitely the people here that people here are very genuine, they’re authentic. And I have that sense when you work in that type of environment, all the happiness and the fun. That’s, that’s real. And it’s also contagious, and I love that it could be myself in this working environment. When I first came to Zappos, I never even heard of the company. You know, I had just left a company after 10 years being with them and I was looking for a new career. And I kept researching this position at Zappos. And I got hired as a barista. But prior to my actual hire date, they asked me if I would come and take a tour and do an on site interview. can I describe that? Because it’s about the experience here and that’s what Zappos tries to do is to create a wow experience regardless of who you are business partner, vendor, or maybe a shopper or even employees. So I arrive at the campus and there are two That podiums at the front door of the lobby, handing out snow cones, basically can Oh, what is that? So they asked me if I want to I said, Sure. So they give me a snow cone, I could walk in, I check in at the front desk, and I’m waiting for a person to come take me around the campus to show me around, there was this big iPad table in the middle of the lobby. And so I ended up playing angry birds for a longest time. And I noticed all these cut ties on them. It was just bizarre. It was fun, but cool at the same time, and weird. Now I’m walking around with the recruiter, and she’s talking about all these different things. I think there was a parade that happened, people were dressed in costumes and whatnot. I just remember it was just a fun day interacting, having my interviews and all the silly questions that were asked during my interview, etc. And then I remember being in my apartment standing there just silent. Because I just saw a whole bunch of things. And I’m thinking what the hell is this place, and whatever it is, I want to be a part of it. And I’ve been here now, August will be 10 years that I’ve been with Zappos. So it’s definitely the people, they make it a fun and engaging place that I want to go and be a part of. And I think that says a lot, because a lot of companies may not have people who are inspired to want to go to work on the daily, here, I get to have that

Gregorio Uglioni 06:17
you are sharing already great nuggets and highlights of what what’s the culture of Zappos. And I think you are speaking about people, you mentioned this, this this topic several times, about motivation, and so on. And I think this is really key. And it’s the game changer nowadays. But what motivate you and all your colleagues data points to wild customer every day.

Ryo Zsun 06:46
So a lot of is making sure we have the right people for our company. And our purpose is to live and deliver Wow. So when I make sure that people who are wanting to be part of Zappos, that their own personal values align with our organizational goal, which is to always create Well, and what I love about that is when I’ve come to work, and maybe I’m not feeling 100%, in that well, electric vibe, I get energized by my coworkers. It’s just, it’s just contagious, and just truly resonates throughout the teams and throughout everyone in the organization. And I think that’s what we all want to do whether it’s just a coworker welling each other, or maybe it’s someone that we’re talking to on the phone, or maybe it’s a business partner, how can we make a little while in their day, and it’s always on top of mind for us. And I think that’s awesome that because you’re surrounded by other like minded individuals, it just perpetuates itself.

Gregorio Uglioni 07:41
And it’s the reality, I am feeling this positivity. Also, I’m discussing with you since 20 minutes, something like that. And I am feeling that it’s incredible for me, I am getting the energy from you. And and this is something new for me. And and it’s really outstanding, perhaps do you have an example of how are you Wow, customers?

Ryo Zsun 08:05
Well, for customers, that to me, that could be my co workers, that could be people on the phone. But let me just share internal stories, there are some things that I’m so random, I just do things because I feel like it should be done that kind of thing. So we’re talking about my ukulele. And I actually send out an email in the mornings before I start my regular day, to people who have birthdays or anniversaries or work anniversaries, and samples just to put a little tear in their day. And I was a tour guide for the last six years here at Zappos when we gave tours, pre pandemic. And sometimes I would be in an area where I see a birthday person in their side whispered to my tour guests. I said, this is my coworker, so and so it’s their birthday today, can we sing Happy Birthday, you know. So again, there’s just random moments, I find opportunities that just come. And we ended up seeing as a group to my coworker. But you know, there’s so many ways sometimes it’s just a compliment with customers. I always love to build what we call personal emotional connections with our customers. And it’s just really actively listening to the customer. And finding ways to create a connection that’s authentic. And genuine. One of the ways that I always like to do it is oftentimes because I lived a lot of different areas growing up across the US. So when I validate someone’s account, they’re giving their address. And I hear that they’re mentioning a town or city that I’ve been to boom, that’s a great connection for me. Oh, you’re calling from Washington, DC. I used to live in Washington. They’re like no way. I said, Yeah. I said, Do people still ask for me? So I make it a funny situation. But it’s a great way that we could start the conversation with a commonality and connection and that truly lets the customer know that this person is listening to me. And this person’s connected, you know, and we’re showing that we really care for our customers and I love that ability that we have to have It would create the WoW sense for anyone who calls in to Zappos and again, with our coworkers as well,

Gregorio Uglioni 10:07
I’d say it’s, it’s totally make sense. And it’s really outstanding. Listening to you and, and getting insights like, really actively listening to discussion, being proactive and thinking, how can I empathize with with others? Perhaps, I don’t know if it’s your view or tap pursue. For me, it’s it’s important to discuss this topic. How do you define service excellence, what for you make the difference in serving customer?

Ryo Zsun 10:42
You know, it’s a wonderful thing, when you can leave a little bit of joy, a memorable experience with someone that allows them to be like, Wow, I can’t believe they did this for me. Or he did this for me. It can happen in everyday life just by simply smiling at someone else that can bring a smile to someone else’s face and brighten their day or the support compliment. And even with customer service here at Zappos, with our customers, how can I go above and beyond what this customer expects, and create that memorable experience. And that’s what I love about it. There’s so many stories that I can think of in the past that because it works both ways. It’s not just the customer because that that magic of creating a really great moment that they’re going to remember happens, because I made I made that happen inside I feel joy to. And if you think about it, that’s magic, it actually perpetuates itself, you always you’re paid for it. This is a natural way of doing it, just by doing something slight. It can mean mountains to others. And I think that’s really wonderful that we can do that. Can I share a story with a customer that I had?

Gregorio Uglioni 11:49
May I say you should.

Ryo Zsun 11:53
Sorry, because this just popped in my head. And this is one of my favorite stories to share. And my job I’ve never done call center work before. But I’ve always interacted with real people in the cafe environment. And so I’m introducing myself, thank you for calling examples. My Name is Rio, how can I help you? And this customer calls me she says she needs a return label return label to return a pair of boots. We have a great exchange program. And I wanted to surprise her with that. So I was asking her questions to gain why she would wanted to return these moves did not fit. She said it was a gift for somebody. And I said Did they not like the color? Did they not like the style? She tells me that the boots were a gift for her father, and her father had just passed away that weekend before. You know, I was thinking to myself, this customer has 1,000,001 things to think about. And she’s so concerned, I’m trying to return a pair of boots. I said, Ma’am, can you just give them or maybe donate them to charity, because we understand laws and I was feeling so much for this customer. And then she started engaging me and telling me stories about how wonderful her dad was. And her brothers and sisters having to fly it. It was a really good conversation when we just when we disconnected finally, I made arrangements for flowers to be sent to her for condolences. We’re not required to send anything to our customers. But in my heart, I felt like this was something that she could possibly need. And so I said those and can I tell you the beautiful part when I say it perpetuates itself, when you do a nice act of kindness or just even listening to the customer, she sent me a card two weeks later, and I still have it in a shoebox in my desk. And not only she thanking me in the card for the flowers, but she sent me a picture of a father. That’s the power when you build those personal emotional connections. And that’s what I love the beauty of what we we do here, but you could do that in regular day life too. And just interacting with people, just that one little thing can mean a world of difference to somebody else.

Gregorio Uglioni 13:51
What you’re saying it’s really important and only to repeat what you said, it’s really, it’s not something that you should do only when you are working or when people are working. But we can do that also in our daily lives. And it’s really extremely, extremely important, perhaps to have another story that you would like to share.

Ryo Zsun 14:12
Oh, yeah, so I have many, so I don’t know how long your phone calls gonna be. But one of the other ones that just popped in my mind, sometimes we may have a situation where we’re out of the product. And I remember a customer called and she wanted this particular size, color type of shoe. And she asked me if we would have it back in stock because the one she needs is out of stock. So I said, Well, let me look. So I’m looking in the back end couldn’t find it. So I told her I’m sorry. It looks like we are out of stock. And now she’s telling me oh my gosh, let me tell you, I’m going to this event. I really need this and matches my habit. And while she’s telling me all these fine details of how important the shoe is. That’s the parachutes folks who just want to say I had opened up a couple other tabs on my browser, and I found it on another website. So I said Ma’am, I think I found your shoe but Let me confirm that they have it installed. Ah, and it was for the same price. So double plus good. So I put her on hold my call their call center. And I said, Can you verify if you have this product? And they’re like, yes, we do. I said, awesome. I have a customer. On the other line, I told me, I was calling from Zappos. And I would love to transfer her to you. So she could purchase it off your website, the representative couldn’t believe I was going to do that. So I go back to the customer, I tell her the same thing. She goes, Wait a minute, what’s in it for you, you don’t get the sale. I said, Ma’am, my job is customer service. I’m here to get you what you need. And that’s the power of that, that no matter what they ask for, we’re just going to go above and beyond Of course, we’re going to help you. And we’ll try to another funny one is a lady called from New Jersey, I believe. And she was in a hurry, I could tell by how rough She sounded. She goes, I just need you to look up a phone number for me for this restaurant in Miami. I said what is the name of the restaurant? So I’m looking it up. And she’s telling me in the meantime, that she is going to be meeting up with some friends in that city in the next week. And she wants to make a reservation to be guaranteed a table. Because this place oftentimes it’s hard to get a reservation. So I said, Well, let me do you a favor, it’s actually placed her on hold. And I called the restaurant myself and made the reservation for her. So she will be guaranteed a table. But these are really good examples of, you know, it may not always apply to what we who we are as ecommerce, but it is applied to our purpose either that is customer service. And I love hearing the joy. On the other end of it. I have one other funny story that just popped. So when we engage with Pepsi, I’ll tell you, when you build that connection, customers sometimes just want to share a lot of things. And I remember this caller from New York, and she just wanted to do simple exchange, I believe it was. And so she’s asking me questions where you’re coming from in Vegas. She goes, I’ve been to Vegas several times. I love it there. I’m from Manhattan. And then she started telling me her life story, how she grew up in New York, all the things that she did, how she was dating this person that would take her to all these fancy restaurants, you know, the whole social life, she was a very busy person. And I just loved the stories very engaging. Now mind you, this was a very lengthy phone call. It was close to five hours. And I realized that I had to use the restroom. So provide number six is be open and honest. So I said, Ma’am, I really have to use the toilet. She goes, Well put me on hold. Oh, wait. Well, that’s so kind of you think. So I ended up coming back. And it was funny, because during that time, I had a co worker who sat next to me to make sure that I had a lot of water, and he snacks or whatnot, because she knew this was gonna be a lengthy call. But I mean, it’s just one of those things when we don’t want to push the customer off to move on to the next column will actually let the customer decide to disconnect. And I love that ability to that we get to people call us for directions. I had someone who was lost and needed an address. So I looked it up and gave it to them. But I also gave them the phone number. And one of my other favorite ones is so this person calls in and I did my greeting, and how can I help you? He said, I need help with my homework. So I said, Well, I’m not a rocket scientist. But I have the Google, you know, so I pull up open up Google and say, What can I help you with? Turns out he was reading about Zappos and studying as he’s in business class. And so he said he wanted to ask questions about our culture. I said, Yeah, Ask Me Anything I work here, I can tell you what I know. And so I answered a few questions. And I can hear giggling in the background. So I was puzzled by that, because I thought it was just him. I said, so. Are you in a study group? Is that the other voices I hear? He goes, you’re actually on speaker in my classroom talking to the rest of my students. So you know, not always is it Zappos related? Again, we’ll do what we can to make it above and beyond for the customer.

Gregorio Uglioni 18:57
That’s, that’s, that’s really outstanding. And one question that came now to my mind is why people, your customer call you for such requests? It’s because you are so well known already in the USA, or how can you because if I get lost and I call my wife, or I call the police, and so on, why quit? Why calling Zappos

Ryo Zsun 19:24
I think over time, our customers, I’ve always shared that story that Hey, call Zappos, they’ll look it up for you to help you. And we’ve had that over the years. And I think that kind of actually is a good thing because it is in alignment with our purpose to live and deliver well, and it’s beyond just customer service for those who are shopping, but it’s also to be able to provide service for those who really need something special. You know, I remember another customer asking, she doesn’t like to online shop. Not everybody’s comfortable with shopping through E commerce. So she wanted to buy a specific brand new shoes, but she wanted to know What stores around her area sells those shoes inside? So what’s his zip code and we ended up looking at. So I mentioned a lot of different shoe companies around her that she can go to. And she was very patient. And I gave her the addresses and stuff like that. But to me, that’s another positive result of, yes, we’re going above and beyond what the customer expects that she just simply wanted to know, where she could find shoes in her area. So she doesn’t have to shop online.

Gregorio Uglioni 20:27
That’s, that’s really interesting. And this is this, this directly direct next question is you are saying we are going above and beyond, but you want always to get better and better? Is it possible to go to the next level? Is there any next level? What are you thinking about this?

Ryo Zsun 20:48
Yeah, so I think there’s always ways to find opportunities. How can I take this to the next level? How can I, you if you think about a not only customer service, but you think about an everyday things in your life? Like, how can I improve on this recipe? Can I make it better? Or how can I improve on this? The way I built this, can I make this a little bit better, etc. And we look at different ways. And, you know, feedback comes from every angle. And it’s so important to us to always better our customer experience and user experience to like I said, it works both ways. How can we make this experience a better interface for our people in the call center. So it makes their work a lot easier, that touches themselves. And this is what I love about customer service, that we’re always constantly evolving, trying to make better processes. And by listening to each other, and finding those areas of inspiration, where we could take it to the next level, I think that will always be a thing that we do here at Zappos, because if we don’t, then we’re just going to maintain a complacency. And we’re not going to get better, and we’re probably not going to create the best experiences all the time. So I hope that answers that question

Gregorio Uglioni 21:55
you completely answer answer that question. And taking the example of my background, it’s soccer. I think, if you want already the the soccer words championship, you can win the next one, and therefore you need to continue training. And you need to get better and better because your competitors know you knows what you’re doing, they can try to copy that, too. They can can try to adjust their strategy. And therefore you need to continue to evolve, even you even if you are already the best. And

Ryo Zsun 22:27
that’s very, very true. And I think organizations today, they want to always be able to be the best at what they do. And constantly looking for ways. And I think a lot of times if we listen to all the different ways that we can get that those ideas from our employees, hey, it would be great if we could make this process this way, make it easier for the customer faster transaction. And for customers to share, hey, I’m not comfortable with how this is foreign. And well listen to those things. And that helps us build better products and services. I think if for any organization, honestly. Yeah.

Gregorio Uglioni 22:59
Yeah, totally, totally makes sense. And now we make a jump of 10 years in the future. What what do you foresee in the future of customer service?

Ryo Zsun 23:14
What I hope that will happen? I don’t I don’t want to claim that I can predict the future, that kind of thing. But we are in the digital world. And I still think that the missing element is how do we take the digital experience, and still humanize it to create a better customer experience. And if we can bridge that and make it cohesive, I think customer service will be phenomenal in the upcoming years. And I think that you’re still have we just starting the conversations now to figure out how can we take the digital platform? And how can we make it a humanistic experience? I think there’s a gray area where they’re not meeting yet. And I hope to think that that will get better over time. So it’s that’s my thoughts on it.

Gregorio Uglioni 23:57
It’s very nice because you are confirming what normal people are, are saying you one of the best one of the best company. It’s experiences are human the technology is me is the mean to support that. But at the end, he spoke about humanizing these experiences that with this technology, and it totally makes sense. I can only say thank you very much. We are coming to the end of this, let’s say friendship game. Because if it’s a friendship or a friendship game, and then the to conclude the discussion in the last few minutes. We are back to you and we would like to learn a bit more about you real, it’s perhaps to your book suggestion that you would like to share with us. And that a book that helps you during your career or during your life.

Ryo Zsun 24:50
There is one that I really recommend to a lot of people they haven’t heard about it. Hopefully you’ll hear about it for the first time. But there’s a gentleman named Simon Sinek who wrote a book called Start with Why. And I can’t tell you how that book. And I’ve read it maybe a few times, it just really changed the way I think about things, adding purpose to the things that I do, and the intentions behind it. Because I like to think I do things with good intentions. I think that’s truly a good book to start, if you’ve not read, it already looks like you’ve heard about it.

Gregorio Uglioni 25:23
It’s one of the best book because this is really giving some basics to the people to to understand that, and what I really liked from Simon Sinek, it’s also how it’s sharing this idea. And again, back to soccer, it’s not about winning one game, because we are playing the long term game. And perhaps as the in the family, I don’t want to win, I want to create value for every member of the family, I am explaining with my words, and therefore it’s not always to win and to beat the others. But it’s let’s try to create something together to play the long game. And therefore I extremely enjoyed reading this book, and also making my ally, my links to soccer, what what’s going well, what we can learn from soccer, but also what perhaps could could could could be improved.

Ryo Zsun 26:18
I love what you said there, it’s just the whole journey, the whole length of it, not just the the short game of it the long term. You know, what, is it good to be moving towards the horizon? And we don’t, I have a lot of hope that a lot of companies see that, though. What are we gonna be 10 to 15 years from now? Or in 30 years from now? Are we gonna be 1000 year old company, because I know hear examples. That’s what we want to strive for.

Gregorio Uglioni 26:40
No, and it totally makes sense. And therefore I mentioned also, earlier, it’s a friendship game because I don’t want to win. Because if I win, you lose. And perhaps then you are not happy. And the next time that we meet, you are not so happy because I won and you lost. And therefore it’s totally make sense. If somebody would like to contact you what’s what’s the best way,

Ryo Zsun 27:04
they are always welcome to find me on LinkedIn. I check in every other day, that type of thing. And if they want to continue conversations with me, they’ll be more than happy to reach out. I’m pretty boring in real life. So I my social channels are all that island get go. But all I posts are all food related things travel or anything with rioter. Because I’m a big fan, that kind of thing. So LinkedIn would probably be your best bet.

Gregorio Uglioni 27:34
Oh, that’s that’s great. And that you mentioned that you like food. And therefore, you mentioned also in the pre discussion that you would like to come to Zurich when you come to Zurich, then I know what I can do you are invited for a lunch or for a dinner together with me or or with my family.

Ryo Zsun 27:49
I’d be so down to do that. Yes. In fact, whenever I traveled to other places, I’m the first one to look at what restaurants or what food can I find it’s local. So yes, so we’ll stay connected you and I

Gregorio Uglioni 28:01
sure more than happy more than happy to do that. And now we are really coming to the last question to the last part of this of this game. It’s Ryo’s golden nugget. It’s something that we discussed or something new that you would like to leave to the audience.

Ryo Zsun 28:20
Good question. So a majority of our conversation has been focused on experiences, great customer experiences. And I think, if you could put one thought in your mind every day, if I had to give you a thought to put in your mind, ask yourself, How will i Wow, today. And that could be anywhere you could be out in public. Maybe you should grocery shopping and maybe say something kind of someone else, or whatnot or maybe is at work, maybe a fellow coworker, or maybe it’s a business partner or a vendor that you work with? What can you do to add a little to brighten up someone’s day, or a little smile on someone else’s faces because it is rewarding, and you’re gonna feel good inside, I promise you.

Gregorio Uglioni 29:01
And if I smile, use my and the other the other way the same. The only thing that I can say is use pride, a lot of happiness, a lot of wow moments also in this discussion. For me, it was really a big, big pleasure to have you on my podcast Ryo. Thank you very much for accepting my invitation. It was really a great, great pleasure. Thank you very much.

Ryo Zsun 29:25
It was such an honor. And I wish you continued success. And I love that you’re doing these podcasts. I think that you are also inspiring others by sharing these conversations. So keep doing that.

Gregorio Uglioni 29:35
Thank you very much. And also to the audience. I hope that you enjoyed this discussion as much as I did. We can learn we are learning a lot from Zappos and therefore, I had the great opportunity to somebody from Zappos on my podcast in particular Ryo. It was really an outstanding discussion. Thank you very much. It was a great pleasure. Have a nice evening. Bye bye Arrivedercu,

Ryo Zsun 30:01
bye everyone thank you.

Gregorio Uglioni 30:03
If you enjoyed this episode, please share the word of mouth. Subscribe it, share it! Until the next episode. Please don’t forget, we are not in a b2b or b2c business. We are in a human to human environment. Thank you

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