Blending Feng Shui Principles with Business & Personal needs with Claire Boscq – E75

Episode released on: May 23rd 2022

Blending Feng Shui Principles with Business & Personal needs with Claire Boscq Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper

The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Claire Boscq

LinkedIn Headline: Turn People & Places into Prosperity using my BIZSHUI Method, blending Feng Shui Principles with Business & Personal needs

Highlights:

00:00 Game Start
01:15 The Book BIZSHUI 9 keys to Feng Shui your Business For Success
08:20 Employee Experience – the Hiring Circle
16:24 Tangible examples to improve the environment
21:03 The day challenge for me (and for you!)
23:15 Employee Development and Training
28:45 The importance of Listening
31:40 Claire contact details
32:30 Claire book suggestion
34:18 Golden Nugget

… and much more

Claire’s Contact Details:

Claire’s books:

https://claireboscq.com/boutique/

Her book suggestion:

  • Start with Why, Simon Sinek

Claire’s Golden Nuggets:

  • “If you’re genuinely caring for your employees, they will genuinely care for your customers. It just seems so simple, but at the same time, so, so powerful”

“If you’re genuinely caring for your employees, they will genuinely care for your customers. It just seems so simple, but at the same time, so, so powerful” @claireboscq on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast

#customerexperience #leadership #cxgoalkeeper #cxtransformation #podcast #bizshui

Transcription:

Gregorio Uglioni 0:03
Ladies and gentlemen, today, it’s really a great, great pleasure. I have Claire Bosqu, back to my podcast. Welcome back to the CX goalkeeper podcast, Claire, our you.

Claire Boscq 0:15
I’m very, very good. Thank you very much for having me back. You didn’t get enough last time. So let’s do some more. All right.

Gregorio Uglioni 0:23
You know, if I can have the first women on the global guru list, I think I am extremely happy. And I know this is not the only list on which you are because you are everywhere you are really driving customer experience, employee experience, and also people to develop themselves. And if you publish a new book, then I want to have you back on my podcast, therefore Thank you very much for accepting my invitation, Claire. how is life? please start speaking about your book because the audience already know you, you were already on episode 47 and 48 of this of this podcast. And therefore, let’s really start creating value for the audience. Yeah. 9 key to Feng Shui your business for success. This is the name of the book. It’s an outstanding book. Where does the idea come from?

Claire Boscq 1:23
I know and it’s you know, it’s been, I mean, three decades, I’ve been in the customer service industry. You know, I was born in a restaurant, my dad had a restaurant I was in catering school I did, you know, I went to Disney World, I’ve traveled quite a bit. And I’ve always been in kind of that service industry, hospitality, especially. And the last 13 years, having my own business, very much started with the measurement of the customer service. And that’s how my business really started until you kind of realized the measurement of that customer service or customer experience. It’s very much the last part of that unit, the project and the strategies that you do, because you’re just checking really well, you need to make sure that before you have all those things in place, your customer experience, your employee experience, your training, you know, your standards, your values, your cultures, right, all those kinds of things. And so very much it’s been the last 13 years about developing that customer and employee experience, and helping the organization you know, delivering amazing customer experiences, you know, getting even better at what they do. And sometimes you just need a little nudge to kind of make it even better. And there’s something that I have been hiding for kind of 10 years is a passion of mine, which is a Feng Shui. So feng shui is that ancient principles, Chinese principles, which really looks at how nature work. And nature is the most beautiful place we could have it does, you know, you know, we get up in the morning, we, you know, we breathe, we we live every day, because nature’s are all around us. And what the Chinese wanted to do is bring in what’s outside inside, because they knew they had to keep themselves safe into into a manmade house. But they still needed that nature to come and help them and nurture them, which is what it’s all about. And I’ve never really talked about it, I’ve always thought people would think I’ve got to be woowoo, you know. And really, during the pandemic, it kind of came up to me. And I was thinking with all the changes we’ve had, right? Or everybody had to work from home, everybody had to work in a different environment, all of the, you know, the practices that you use to have been completely deranged and working on the side of the bed or, you know, on the kitchen tables, having the dogs, the family, the children all around you. It’s really has affected people, right. And so I thought now is the time to really kind of come out and help organization and people individuals as well, to really create an enhance their energy around them. Because when you feel good outside, you’re going to feel good inside. And what are you going to do? You’re going to give great service, you’re going to smile, you’re going to be very creative, you’re going to be so productive because you’re feeling good in your environment and you’re feeling good in yourself. And that’s seems very simple, right? However, it’s not done as consciously as what it could be. So you and I know and everybody who’s watching the podcast or listening to the podcast Do you go somewhere? Whether it’s a retail shop or hotel, perhaps, you know, it could be even, you know, corporate office, and you walk in through the doors, and you just go, Oh, you don’t know why, right? But you don’t know why. But it doesn’t feel right. What are you gonna do, you’re gonna go in, you’re gonna do what you have to do, and you’re gonna get out again, right?

If you’re walking in somewhere, oh, oh, it smells nice. It looks beautiful. You want to go and touch everything. It smells beautiful. There’s music around, you know, certainly your five senses are all connected. And you’re certainly connected with the place on that emotional level, which is what we always talk about that human emotional drivers are the drivers that we want to connect with. Because that’s where people really will start really feeling that you genuinely care about them. If you also that there are two sides of our brain that they are not analytical, the left brain, the neural cortex, who just tells us you know what to do. And we’ve got our right brain, which is our limbic brain. And it’s just all about the feelings, the connections, these emotional drivers, that makes us buy what we buy, makes us do what we do. So this is what the book is about, I kind of blended, you know, the feng shui principles, with the personal state of being with really how you deliver that exceptional customer experience, how your teams are delivering great customer service, how are you communicating your messages, and how are you showing up for your customers, and how you caring for your team. So that’s kind of, in a quick way, what the book is all about.

Gregorio Uglioni 6:54
And it’s great. And I think, and I am, we’re speaking in video, and therefore I also see you, I see your yellow closes, I see the flowers behind you. And everything is really put together. And I am getting your energy from from from the discussion, not only from your words that are always motivation and explain quite a lot, but also around the picture. And therefore it’s extremely easier for me to talk with you and to chat with you. And I think it’s really important what you’re saying, moving the emotions, my small example. That’s That’s exactly exactly the same in football or for our American friends in in soccer. If you’re speaking about fence, they are emotionally involved for their team. Think about fans, even if the team is losing losing the match or lost the match, they are spreading, spreading positive word of mouth, I think quite a lot of companies are dreaming of having such customer as emotionally involved SDR. And the same is for for them, the people that are on the field that are playing the teammate. And today I would really like to speak with you about employee experience, because everybody’s speaking about customer experience, we have quite a lot of customer experience expert, but we are finding out that without having a proper employee experience, we cannot deliver the customer experience we want. And perhaps in your book, there are a lot of insights, a lot of great tips on how to structure the business, how to improve the business. And now focusing focusing on the employee experience. Starting from the question, I need a new employee, what’s your way of creating iring new people on a team that they can really deliver?

Claire Boscq 8:52
Yeah, absolutely. And I think we talk about, you know, similarly, when we talk about customer experience, we talk about values, you know, when you’re looking at a culture, your organization, culture, what are your values, and I’ve always felt it was really, it’s kind of it’s a driver, right? And value needs to be put into everything that you do, because writing them on the wall, so they look pretty, and but never doing anything with it, it’s never going to help an organization, you know, moving forward. So if you have very strong values, if you have a vision and a mission, that really everybody sing from the same hymn sheet, then you know that you’re going to have people that are going to be engaged, they’re gonna love, they’ve got passion, they want to follow what you’re doing. So having this in the middle, it’s really important. So then you kind of from that everything that you do on terms of the employee experience strategy, because remember, it is a strategy. It’s not just a tick boxes exercise, you really need to kind of looking at it as a comprehensive and holistic approach to your employees. You know, there’s a figure by Steelcase Who says that 98% of the most highly engaged employees feel that that sense of belonging is what makes them productive. It’s what they they want an organization. If people feel engaged, if people feel part of it, the you know, they feeling that they part of that organization’s bigger vision, and then they’ll be engaged, they will want to be here, they’ll want to show that they care as much as you show them, that you care for them. So having a big, proper strategy is really important. So from the the sourcing and recruiting, and again, it’s we talk about those touch points, and that those emotional level, what are the words that you’re using? When you’re, you know, when you’re sourcing your advert? What are the words that you actually using to, to to advertise for the position? What are the things that what are the questions that you’re asking? The person who is coming for an interview? Are you asking them about their values, so, you know, this aligns you with your values, because if they don’t, that’s never gonna work? You know, so it’s really important to kind of start, you know, from the beginning, using the right word, using them, or a message, using the right colors, and really making them feel this is part of where, who they’re going to be partying, they’re going to be long to this team, right? And so you want them to be engaged. And then also, it’s really important, we talk about personalization. And, you know, in customer experience, this is just the same thing, you know, do a bit of profiling, you know, understand who that person in front of you is, what do they like, what don’t they like, how they’re going to work with other people. And profiling is really, really cool way to really understand yourself, so you can understand others, not only your beer so much more and come in better in communication, you’ll be able to lead, you’ll be able to have teams, which are really kind of mad, you know, not matching, but they’re all working together because they are understanding each other. So prefer profiling, and personalization is really important from the beginning. So you can understand what drives people. And then of course, the next step is your pre boarding and onboarding, you know, welcome them, make them feel that they’re part of a team, make them feel that they’re welcoming here, don’t just shove them in a corner and give them a desk and, and a computer. And here you are, you know, there’s so many things that can be done to really make them people feel, you know, part of it and introducing them, to shadowing them, all those kinds of things, you know, can be done right at the beginning to really, and this was a big thing, you know, when you were employing people during COVID, because there was no face to face, right? So how did people actually feel when they were behind the Zoom Room, and they didn’t know anybody else. And so thinks about those feelings, that their employees are feelings, they already probably were a bit stressed, or probably a bit anxious starting to make everything that you can to actually bring them part of it. Of course, if we start nurturing, you know, our employees, we talk about well being we talked about their state of being we talked about really kind of looking after their mental health, their emotional health, really understanding, you know, what, how can we really, as an organization, make sure that every single one of our employees feel good, because when they feel good, they’re going to be empowered, they’re going to be creative, they’re gonna want to work for you. Those are really rare, very, very rare words. Now, we talk about well being everywhere, don’t we? Sure. But it’s not always sometimes you see it as a tick box, rather than really kind of taking it to that next level and embedding it into your culture, embedding it into that x experience strategy, or your employee experience strategy. And of course, now we come into the environment, of course, now we’re coming to some of the the tips and the tools that you can be as an organization, creating a better environment so your employees can feel good. So your customers walking through your doors are going to be Wow, they can feel that energy. This is aligning with what they have the feeling, and then you’re really creating that experience for your employees and for your customers. How magic is that? Right? It’s really, really cool when you start matching the energy from you know, people to your business, and then you really kind of aligning that energy and people feel good. It’s so, so simple, right?

Gregorio Uglioni 14:48
What you’re saying it’s totally makes sense. And also according what you mentioned, mentioned earlier, I own border to one and one employee, one lady, some weeks ago and before she started I colder it was the evening before. And I told her, I wish you tomorrow a great day in the production day, you are not in the office with us you are with all the other people starting in this month. And she was so happy that the boss colder one day in advance for me it was five minutes investment, but it was a great investment because she was really motivated, she was extremely happy. She told everybody Oh, my boss called me one day in advance is is caring about me. And I only said welcome to your new job. And you can find me there and there. And then some some some some additional information. And she she was so open there for I think it’s not always finding really expensive way of creating this perfect experience with flowers, with dinner with lunch, and all this stuff. I think it is part of it, but also exactly the simple things that can be done this signals, I care about you exactly what you find, I will find time for you. And that’s what I’m always telling to to my team, I have time for you. Because without you, I am not I can I can do anything. And therefore I care about you. And we are a team and together we can we can we can achieve something, perhaps you are working or you’re speaking about environment. And I know that you really likes to topic around environment. Do you have also perhaps some some tangible example of changes that you did for some of your, of your customers in the environment in order to improve that

Claire Boscq 16:43
sure! So do you want some some some tips for a business or so more for an individual?

Gregorio Uglioni 16:51
I would let’s say let’s start for business. But I would like to improve myself? And therefore the next question would be for individuals.

Claire Boscq 16:59
Cool, that’s very simple. One of the things that you know, it’s it’s very, it’s very simple to use, and is I used by nine, so nine is a Feng Shui, it’s, it’s a lucky number. And so that’s why I’ve called my book nine keys to Feng Shui your business, but some of the very simple things that you can be doing as, as an organization, and as an individual as well, you know, some of the things about the position of the desk is really important. If you have people which are not facing that they’ve got you know, to feel safe, you would want to have a wall behind you write and you will want to be able to see who’s coming through the door, because your body’s here to protect you. That’s all it does. Your body protects you all day long, right. And so if you can’t see who’s coming behind you, you buddy all day long is going to worried about somebody who’s going to kill you come and kill you behind you. Right. So having a wall behind you, and being able to see what’s going on will give you that commanding position. So I know it’s often we see desk against the wall, because aesthetically, it’s easier or because it takes less space. Really tell me have you ever seen a CEO of a Fortune 500? Where this space against the wall?

Gregorio Uglioni 18:27
Not really,

Claire Boscq 18:28
no, you’re never so you want to have that kind of view. And you want to make sure that you protect it in your bag, and you can see what’s going on all around. And you know that, you know, that’s a great position. Something else too very simple to do is add plants, right? Plants are beautiful, they’re, you know, alive, they help you breathe, they help the office clean, you know, certain plants are better than other for bringing more oxygen and they take toxins out of the place to bring some plant bring some nature around you and really kind of, you know that growth, you know, the plants are also the grow, right? And so you have want some nice big plants which grow with your business and actually help that growth and expansion in your business. Something else that really like and again, it’s a simple thing that you do. Gregor or your it’s, it starts at the door, right? If you go into a business and you arrive in front of the front door, and there’s cigarette but there’s papers, the windows are dirty, the handle is so murky, you’re not really welcomed by you, that’s not going to make you feel like you want to go in that in that place. Right. So start from the front door, create a beautiful start of your journey with your organization and also in Feng Shui, the door is the entrance of the energy, right, you’re opening the door and you’re letting the energy come in. So you want to have some that good energy coming in through your front door. So really like, start from the outside and look around. And what can you see? And how can you kind of make that wow, first impression, we talk about first impression on customer service, right on that customer experience, this is the same thing, this is exactly the same thing. So start from the outside. And of course, fix and repair everything. There’s nothing worse than having broken bulbs, squeaky doors, office office cabinets, who are not opening or not closing, there’s nothing worse than not having something that isn’t working. So again, that’s not good. She’s not good energy. You know, make sure that you spend time to look around, and actually what is working and what isn’t working. So those are some of the good things that you can do. And Gregory, I’m gonna give you one challenge for today. Do you want one challenge? Just one, okay. Okay, so whether it’s in your office, or whether it is in your home, I would like you to go and move 27 things in your living room or office. So you know, wherever you are 27 items, move it, shake it, replace it, you know, just change it, turn a little cup around, move that painting that is not straight, add a plant from the kitchen to the living room, move and shake 27 items and see how the energy is going to be moving by just doing this.

Gregorio Uglioni 21:49
I cannot believe it? Because this was my last question that I wanted to ask you. I wrote it on my paper, I can show it to you. Why should I move 27 items? It was not prepared this question relates. You are reading my questions. That’s not possible…

Claire Boscq 22:12
so all our energy, right?

Gregorio Uglioni 22:14
So much energy for you.

Claire Boscq 22:16
Yeah, but you know, it’s so powerful, while 27 hours a night. So we talked about nine, right and nine is the you know, so everything that you do try to do it in the nine. So in the threes, three 927 18. So sometimes I give challenges for decluttering. So nine minutes of decluttering for nine days, that’s a really not another one, which is really, really simple to do. But so powerful. And so the 27 items, it really you you’re moving energy, right? You’re shifting something you’re so used to walk past things that you don’t see them anymore, are you seeing something and you don’t like it? Well, you still have it in that place. No shift it, if you don’t like it, get rid of it, you know, change it, move that energy. And that will shift the energy around.

Gregorio Uglioni 23:07
Thank you very much. It’s really incredible. But it’s the reality. And this is what I like having this this discussion. Coming back to the employee experience, we spoke about environment and Feng Shui, and now the employees are eager and are in the proper environment, too. And therefore it’s time to develop them and train them. Could you please explain a bit about it?

Claire Boscq 23:30
Yes, again, you know, sometimes, I mean, I’ve heard it so much so many times before. You know, we don’t have much budget for training. And, you know, we’ve spending all our money is on advertising, well stop spending money on advertising, if you’re not spending any money on training, because what is the point people through your door, if your staff your employees don’t know what they’re doing, right? I mean, this is just so crazily simple. So get your training program in place, not just once a year for three hours, make sure that you’re doing it on a weekly basis on a monthly basis on a daily basis as a manager as a department manager, pick up your employees pick up your team, give them a quick tips, give them a bit of motivation during the day, and then really kind of share that because once you start developing them, not only they be better at what they do, but they feel that you know you generally want them to do well. So they will give you more and they’ll develop and they’ll train even more they will learn more and they’re going to get amazing customer service right there’s no way they wouldn’t give so all that money you’re saving and advertising you’re gonna gain it because you know your your team will know what they’re doing. They’ll know how to sell they’ll know how to get great service, they’ll know how to build rapport, those kinds of those kinds of skills, I hate calling them a soft skills, you know, I really something that annoys me. But it’s essential skills, teach them things like emotional intelligence, teach them things like resilience, teach them how to build rapport, those are very, very important skills that all of your employee needs to have. And the more you give them, the more they will give to your customers. And this is just really kind of very powerful. So you, you’re nurturing your employees, so they can be more engaged, they will want to stay here, you know what happened, then they go and tell all their friends, they’re working for mazing company, they’re working for an exceptional organization come and work with us. And there’ll be so proud to be doing that, they’ll go on social media, they’ll talk about that organization. And that kind of comes back towards retention, referrals, all those things that you know, you’re spending a lot of money in recruitment, right? Recruitment is a big, big cost in an organization. Well, if you really genuinely caring for them, you won’t have that cost, you will keep keep them, they will stay here, no more churn, we are really kind of looking after that. That’s what you want, you want your employee loyalty, just as much as you want your customer loyalty. So reward them recognize what they like, what they don’t like, we’ll come back to that personalization. You know, when you’re doing a reward scheme, or recognization, scheme, part of your strategy, make it individual, like you said, that person you’ve called her, that was just amazing. She really felt very personally touched by what you don’t, you know, somebody may prefer an email somebody did, you know, learning how your employees are, by profiling them, by understanding them by the managers talking to them, this will really make that difference. You really being seen as somebody who genuinely care about their employees. And that takes them to the next level, right? How amazing is it to work for an organization that genuinely care about you?

Gregorio Uglioni 27:19
Yes, it totally makes sense. And I think that that’s really great, because what you were saying it’s also about recognition, yes, it can be an email, it can be a phone call. But also in the remuneration, some people want to have more money, perhaps because they’re at the beginning of their career, they need to pay their mortgage or something like that, or other people want to have more time. And therefore they like more to have more time for the family for for travel for all this, instead of getting more money. And therefore also there we need. If we speak in customer experience about either personalization, or making relevant experience for our customer, then we wish to do exactly the same for our employees. And in this case, they are here together with with us, we don’t need specific CRM tools. Or I don’t know which which machine to understand them and to ask them, because they are sitting next to us. Yes, don’t people are in the still in the digital space. But I’m going into the office. And I see, for example, that somebody eat everyday chocolate, and therefore once I brought him a chocolate, and other one is drinking coffee, I brought him a coffee even if I am the boss or the team lead. No problem at all, because this is shows that I care about them.

Claire Boscq 28:39
Yeah. And Gregorio Oh, you’ve told me one thing, what is the one thing that you your wife loves the best about you? What is the one thing that she said that you know, you do? Amazingly. Let’s hope that you’re gonna say the same thing as me.

Gregorio Uglioni 28:54
I know a few things because she really liked chocolate cake. And for our birthday, I do it always by myself. And I created for her last week again, this this chocolate, but she loved flowers. And she’s getting at least twice a month flowers from it. It’s a signal that I care about her.

Claire Boscq 29:17
But how did you know that? How did you know that? You know, she’s she loves those

Gregorio Uglioni 29:22
how she is smiling after she get them.

Claire Boscq 29:25
Right. But did you ask her as well? Did you you know how you had that conversation? Or did you listen to something that she said before? You may have listened to something that she said in passing? And so I’m going to do that for her.

Gregorio Uglioni 29:38
This is this is clear. This is something that to be honest, I am learning really to listen more to my family to my son to my wife, because sometimes they don’t need the solution. They need only or she need only to be listened to. And and this is something that I’m really learning and This is key because it’s really changing. I bought something for forever as a birthday present. And it’s something that she was asking for years, but really listened to this request was only in the last month. And therefore she got that and she was extremely happy.

Claire Boscq 30:17
So we talked about listening to our customers, right? We talk about doing surveys and this and that. Listen to your employees, listen to your employees, your the voice of your employees is so powerful, you know, they, if they, if you’re attracted the right person, if you nurturing them, if they engage, they want to give you some tools and feedback about what’s working, what’s not working, how do they feel, how this is, you know, help them what all the, you know, training do they need, really, it’s that kind of that final touch, which again, should be all the way through, you know, the listening part of it being part of, of everything that you do, listening to your employees, and listening to your customers, of course, is key to really having a thriving team.

Gregorio Uglioni 31:09
I think we are closing the loop and we went through all the relevant step, the only thing that I can send clear, it was really a big, big pleasure to go through the employee journey together with you from the beginning, not to the end, because there is no end we have that the employees stay with us, as long as they’re happy with it. And I think we are also coming to the end of this discussion. But I still have my three standard questions. The first one is, could you please share your contact details?

Claire Boscq 31:44
Oh, yes. So contact details actually just my name Claire Bosqu. And that’s my website. So claireboscq DOT com. And then on social media, I’m Claire Bosque everywhere as well. So I’ve kind of, you know, yeah, you find me, Google me, you’ll find me somewhere.

Gregorio Uglioni 32:03
Where can where can we find your book.

Claire Boscq 32:06
So Amazon’s got the book, and then also on playbox, got.com, you go on the boutique, I’ve got like a little boutique tab. And then you’ll see my four books in there, and you’ll be able to download it from there. So thank you so much for, you know, having me and being able to share some some Biz Shui experience tips.

Gregorio Uglioni 32:26
Thank you very much. Before we conclude the last few really short questions. The first one is, is there a book that you would like to suggest to deal with and the last time you suggest the one book about Feng Shui and one business book, perhaps in the meantime, you read one interesting book that you would like to share with the audience?

Claire Boscq 32:43
Yeah, you know, there was one book, I mean, it’s quite an old book. But it’s, it’s when it comes back to those values that we talked about. And I was really one of the books that really kind of, I had ha ha moment. And that “start with a why”. And I’m sure there’s a lot of people have read it. But sometimes just going back to it, you know, you’d kind of you know, you’re reminding yourself how important it is reminding yourself that everything is in the why everything is in that connection. And everything is surrounded where you know, how you feel and his values and his mission and why you’re trying to achieve, because then everybody will be attracted to that they will want to be with you, they will want to work for you. And so it’s it’s quite a good, it’s quite a good way. And there’s an old wine from Simon Sinek. But it’s, it’s still quite a powerful one on my list.

Gregorio Uglioni 33:38
It’s really an important one. And before we come to the last highlight of this discussion, please dear your audience pause this podcast, go to Amazon, buy the book, download the book, I check it now it’s 99 cents. If you buy the Kindle version, and it’s worth it, it’s really worth it. It’s worth it more than one pound or $1. Because it’s full of insight, not that you misunderstand what I am saying, but really pause this podcast, buy the book, because it’s really full of insights. And when you’re back, we can conclude the discussion with Claire with the last question. It’s Claire golden nugget. It’s something that we discussed or something new that Claire would like to leave to the audience.

Claire Boscq 34:26
Yeah, I think it’s that that simple thing that it may have been the same thing that I’ve talked about last time. But you know, if you’re genuinely caring for your employees, and you know, looking at all the steps from that employee strategy, really kind of that that we talked about today, if you genuinely care for them, they will genuinely care for your customers and they just seem so simple, but at the same time, so, so powerful.

Gregorio Uglioni 34:51
Claire, thank you very much. It was again an outstanding discussion. I think we can move it to a weekly discussion.

Claire Boscq 35:00
We would have enough to talk about for sure.

Gregorio Uglioni 35:03
Exactly. Joke aside. It was really great. Thank you very much for your time for, again, having a discussion with with us with me and with with the audience. It was outstanding, and I hope that the audience enjoyed as much as I did this discussion. Thank you very much, Claire.

Claire Boscq 35:20
Thank you. Bye. Bye, everybody.

Gregorio Uglioni 35:23
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