The Customer Experience Landscape – Ozkan Demir, CEO Pisano – E77

Episode released on: June 6th, 2022

The Customer Experience Landscape with Ozkan Demir Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper

The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Ozkan Demir.

LinkedIn Headline: Chief Executive Officer – Pisano


  • 00:00 Game Start
  • 00:50 Ozkan’s Introduction
  • 02:20 Ozkan’s Values
  • 04:30 His view of the CX landscape “The Total Experience”
  • 06:49 Key ingredients for such a great success story
  • 13:03 What are customers asking to Pisano?
  • 15:11 The role of the team and some insights to nurture it
  • 20:20 Coach or teammate?
  • 20:50 What we are discussing in 10 years about Customer Experience?
  • 25:33 Ozkan’s contact details
  • 28:28 Ozkan’s “non” book suggestion
  • 30:25 Ozkan’s Golden Nugget

Selected quotes:

  • “Being better than yesterday”
  • “Every day, every employee, at 1.30 PM Istanbul Time employees get together to discuss every customer feedback”
  • “Customer are looking for the best product and the best team in the most affordable way”

… and much more

Guest’s Contact Details:

His book suggestion:

  • Reading a lot will help you!

Guest’s Golden Nuggets:

  • “The best products, the best processes are always developed with customers. So, listening, and understanding them is the basis. And if you act on that properly and you make the change happen, customers will feel that.”

“The best products, the best processes, the best companies are always developed by listening” @ozkandemir on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast


#customerexperience #leadership #cxgoalkeeper #cxtransformation #podcast


Gregorio Uglioni 0:03
Ladies and gentlemen, today’s really a big, big pleasure I have Ozkan with me, Ozkan is a thought leader in customer experience, but not only it’s also big friend of mine, and therefore I’m really, really happy to have him on the CX goalkeeper show. Hi Ozkan, how are you?

Ozkan Demir 0:19
I agree Greg doing great. And thank you very much for all the kind words that you’ve used. It’s my pleasure actually being on the call with you today.

Gregorio Uglioni 0:27
Thank you very much, I am quite sure we will have an brilliant discussion, because you are always bringing value when I’m listening to your podcast to your show, or when I’m looking at Pisano Academy, I learn every time something new and therefore I’m really keen to kick off the discussion. But before we deep dive into any specific topic, let’s can Could you please introduce yourself?

Ozkan Demir 0:53
Absolutely. Just before getting back to there, I actually have you I mentioned on LinkedIn. You know, on the last healthcare report that we published, you asked for that, you know, a few months ago, I’m just right after this call. I’ll go back and mention you saying that this is ready now. You can go and download it. So that’s that’s one of the newest things that we’re doing at Pisano credit. Going back to myself, my name is Oscar Mayer. I’m one of the founders and CEO of Pisano. At Pisano, we provide an experience management platform that enables businesses to implement voice of customer and voice of employee initiatives in their businesses we’re moving towards with all the capabilities that we have into the total experience area. Before Pisano I have relatively like I still don’t have gray hairs. But you know, I mean to business for more than 20 years, I started to work when I was 11. Since then, I’ve always worked in the in different works and at different capacities. I worked in Italy for quite a lot. And right before as he as we were discussing, my Italian used to be better than my English even. And I worked in us just before starting starting Pisano for about one and a half years. And and then I came back to Turkey and started started Pisano adventure.

Gregorio Uglioni 2:19
Thank you very much, Ozkan. In this discussion. I always like to learn a bit more about you. And therefore the usual question, which are the values that drives you in life?

Ozkan Demir 2:34
thought question, so it is it is always it’s always a difficult question, honestly speaking. You know, personally, I do feel like you know, every day is a new opportunity, you start your day as like a battery, you start with 100, by the end of the day, you’re actually almost zero or close to zero, you go to bed and charge yourself and start a new day. So at this new day, we do see that like or, or I do see that as an opportunity to become better. So you either you know live your day, to being more developed person or better that person for for the next day. Otherwise, all the other, you know, all the other motivations that you may have, has, you know, has an end. So, whenever you reach out to there, and which I’ve had earlier in my career I needed, I said I want to move to a country, I want to visit you know, 30 countries, which I’ve done maybe like when I was 25 I wanted to earn that much amount of money, I’ve done that, or I’ve done all of them when you reach out to those targets, and then you find yourself in a plateau where you know, you need the next thing. So when the next things are actually comfortable. I find I find my motivation to continue today being literally better than yesterday, every single day. So that’s, that’s a continuous goal and continuous target to keep up in the life.

Gregorio Uglioni 4:09
Being better than yesterday, this is really an outstanding sentence, I think we have the first tweetable moment with with this sentence. Really, really nice. And you mentioned something that that I think it’s really important and we can also start deep diving in customer experience and what you are doing, you spoke about total experience and as a CEO of Pisano, you are speaking with a lot of companies in the different regions, and what’s your view on the actual customer experience landscape?

Ozkan Demir 4:42
So there’s as I said, and as you said, total experience so it’s all about human so when when we use these words just because you know some analysts or you know some market drivers mentioned that those those keywords, but actually it’s about the human experience. Like, you know, be there, it’s been a customer experience. It is an employee experience experience of a partner. So you know, wherever there is that surrounding around the business or an individual, we really care about all the human experience around. That’s why That’s why we call it as a total experience concept. So with that total experience, we really would like to, you know, still talking about the commercial world, we really would like to take this experience the total experience to a level where people are really talking about the our kindness, or experience of the whole trade. We’re still at the very early days of this. But again, the future I see it coming like we will be talking about the total experience, the kindness of the full full trade environment.

Gregorio Uglioni 5:55
Think what what you’re saying it’s totally makes sense. And it’s really interesting, because it’s what I’m also facing, in my as Knoll Ward, there are quite a lot of people that goes to work in their companies and are completely different people than they are at home, or they’re outside of work. And I think this is not possible, that will not be possible in future anymore. Because we are always connected, we are always in exchange with people. And therefore I think this is really an really interesting idea, and something that we would like to follow. And I think at the end, it’s really the vision of every customer experience professional. It’s not only about improving the revenues, but it’s the return on the on the experience, what brings these experiences to us as human beings. And as, as you’re working for for piano and piano is really a fast growing company, you are everywhere and sponsoring a lot of different events, you are growing. I think later we will speak also about Pisano friends. And what’s the key ingredients for having such success story?

Ozkan Demir 7:09
Usually, I wasn’t expecting this question. I’ll be I’ve shared this in in different, different mediums. I’ll say very basic things. But you know, it’s very hard to do, I believe, because I’ve never heard anyone else doing. You know, sometimes really, those basic and simple things are easy and easy to say. But you know how to do so Pisano is actually a platform developed by the customers developed by the businesses and developed for those same people, same businesses and same enterprises or same customers. So what do I mean? So this is not a space that we have invented, we need to make peace with that, like we need to agree that this is not the same in the space that we meant. So there were analysts that they were writing about customer experience 30 years ago. So 30 years ago, in the world, it was defined what is voice of customer, but voice of employee, those people were talking about the concepts that we’re talking about now 30 years ago. And imagine yourself, you’re putting a small stone, I was keeping one at my hand, but due to my background, you could have your what you will see that you will you will be putting a stone every single day for 30 years, you would literally make a skyscraper every single day, you’re putting a small stone, you would make the skyscraper in 30 years. And then Pisano is just six years old business. So when you just born, you look at the world. And you realize that there is a world around you which all the market and you know competitors, expectations of the customers, partners, all that environment, trade environment, then there are skyscrapers around you. So, you know, you got to start from somewhere, but you don’t know. And you have resources, which are, you know, let’s say which are limited or you know, again, there are boundaries of those. Those resources. We found the key ingredient ingredient by actually what we wanted to bring to our customers. So we did implement piece on a platform first inside the piano. So we always use our own platform. So we implemented voice of the customer within Pisano first since 2016 When the company was established every single day, every Pisano employee at any office at 1.30 pm Istambul time, they get together to discuss every customer feedback.

That is how we defined our customer intimacy. That’s how Pisano is developed with those businesses that trust in Pisano. And that is developed for them at the same time. So that’s and as you know, that is the state. That’s the story that we sell to our customers. That’s how Voice of Customer programs work, then we implement that within Pisano so that we, you know, go tested and those skyscrapers, and we reach out to them. So maybe persona provides today 120% of what’s available in the market, maybe 90%. But that is always understood and appreciated by the customers, we have, in average 1000 users with all our customer portfolio using Pisano platform every single day, because that platform is developed for them and developed by them. And then, you know, when we, when we implemented that infrastructure, also, within the within the Pisano platform, you know, we also felt like we also made those, our businesses feel that, you know, they really cared their experiences and their expectations. So in such a way, we actually managed our resources efficiently and effectively, so that, you know, everything that we do has a meaning in the market. And we also, you know, save ourselves, put yourself in my shoes. Six years ago, you started a business, you have no idea. How would you know, it’s a very tough situation, you didn’t know those brilliant ideas that you may have cost you billions dollars, let’s say million dollars, because you’re in at a small scale. And then in three years, you’re out of business, or people don’t like what you’ve developed. That’s that that’s not an easy job. That’s what keeps you keeps you awake in the in the night. But when you listen to customers, they’re there. You know, again, it doesn’t doesn’t mean that everything that customer feedback says is correct. But the experience or the talent you have in the company, needs to filter them down, analyze them, and then put them in a format that even exceeds the expectation of the customer. But that’s the talent. And that talent in those six years made an amazing job. That’s what made Pisano you know, attractive for all those businesses that trusted in Pisano for the past two years, and even you know, some of the competitors that try to you know, somehow have the experience of the Pisan about we said no.

Gregorio Uglioni 12:46
It’s really outstanding, listening to the to the customer and acting also to what they’re saying and requesting and for sure, always having in mind that we are in business, you are making us extremely curious because you are saying you listen to the customer. And before you tell us how you solve the issues of the customer. What are your customer asking you?

Ozkan Demir 13:11
So, factually, like factually speaking, when we talk to our own customers, about 80% of our customers choose Pisano for its analytic capabilities. And about add again, exactly the numbers should be about 80 to 81% are also choosing Pisano for its talent, the competency of the people that they’re going to work with. So considering again, the technology speed of technology and the framework that we’ve implemented in the past and you know, today venture capitals are their money is very cheap money is everywhere. As soon as you know you’re doing the things on the right way. So besides a big platform today, like we have a lot of capabilities like starting from the very early engagement or customer pool lifecycle stage, we manage the experience of direct customer or an employee starting from the candidate period up to you know, being being an alumni. So throughout the process, there are a lot of those functionalities readily available within the Pisano platform. But you’re, you know, if you’re asking me now you know what they’re asking more like Currently, our you know, employee experience solutions are very trending for various reasons, like great resignation, working from our middle cetera, et cetera. But honestly, there is one request all the ways which will never change. Our customers want the best products from Pisano combined with the most competent team and in the most affordable way. That’s what our customers are asking us every single day.

Gregorio Uglioni 15:00
And I think the product you can copy, but the experiences that you are offering to your customer, this is something that it’s not possible to copy, you mentioned several times, and they really like like it and enjoy, enjoy listening to you. It’s the team because they are making the difference. It’s like a football team or soccer team playing the game and trying to win the game. Are you there are some Could you share with us your thoughts or best practices what you are doing at pizano? In order to nurture this this talent? You mentioned something at 1:30pm? You discuss customer feedback? Are there any other insights you can share with us?

Ozkan Demir 15:45
Yeah, absolutely. So for the team, it’s, today, I believe, that’s the biggest challenge for almost every business. So if you’re, you know, if you’re a niche, if you’re a small business, you may find your niche, and you may attract, you know, up to, let’s say, 10 people, you know, in a way that, you know, you can keep them also happy and you know, motivated, satisfied. But, you know, when you go to scale, when we’re talking about 50 people, from 100 people to you know, 1000s, then the real challenge come so it’s very difficult, even, you know, in the talent market today, you know, talents are much more powerful compared to the businesses. So even from the early day, we really, you know, cared about the experience of the people. For some people, we wouldn’t tell them, Look, the sun is not the right place for you. The other offers that you received from Company A, B, and C are better for you, we believe that you’re going to be much more successful there, and you will have a better future. So when we talk to, you know, for example, let’s let’s talk about the recruitment process, let’s say that we’re receiving a potential team member for the company. Again, I’ll say very simple things, but I’m not sure again, if the companies will be able to implement. If, if nothing major happens, I need every single person that’s going to join the company. I’m never the decision maker. Never, ever, even for the people that I will work with directly. I’m never the decision maker. And they’re always to make a final handshake. So I never asked any questions. I always listen and respond all the questions coming from the talent first, just to make sure that everything is understood. And then their questions are answered, before they make the decision. Because that moment in life is very important company is a powerful entity. Company has resources priorities, you know, you can sweep some things under the carpet, you can change priorities, you know, you can say that I made a mistake, you can like, you know, company is a different entity, but for a person in the life of a person, changing the job changing the life changing and environment, it’s a big decision. And we want to make sure that they have the necessary and required information before they make the decision. So the honest conversation, at that point, usually results in a long term relationship. Because we start there, it starts there, it starts even before people getting into that company. So we would like to make sure that we give all the information available within the Pisano before, so that people make the right decision for them. And then that’s one thing that we find usually work. And then I have usually have about like one question that I asked throughout those into, let’s say, engagements, and I asked like how was your experience with us so far throughout the process, and usually the words that I hear is, you know, great culture, very friendly, open, I’ve never, you know, felt this comfortable in, in, you know, job interviews and orders. So that’s, that’s the image that we want to create. And that’s actually the culture inside the piano too. So, you know, that, you know, that differs from organization to organization. We are, as you said, we’re a fast growing business. You know, even today, we had five new team members, just start imagine, you imagine the speed of the company, the growth the company is going through. So we really care about all this experience from even before they get into the company from the first moment that we touch with them. And I would like to get that feedback individually from every one of them. If there is anything wrong, we are there to fix. But, you know, we also would like to start that relationship in In a, you know, in a way that it’s a long term sustainable relationship.

Gregorio Uglioni 20:05
Ladies and gentlemen, first of all, you have a competitive advantage if you listen to this podcast because you know which question Ozkan is going to ask you during the recruiting process, Joke aside what you are seeing and what you’re doing, and also your role, it really looks like football coach at the end, you know, that the people, the players are on the game, and they are playing, and you are empowering them out in them to get the best and to be the best in order to achieve this, this result? That does it fit in, in my explanation, what I’m saying and what you said,

Ozkan Demir 20:40
I’m not sure if I’m the cause, you know, where we’re stuck, we’re still you know, I would say my i We’re still a small company, and we will always be a small company, the company doesn’t need a coach. So they they they need a team member, they need a team member that they can depend on they need someone that they can call everyone at Pisano has my phone number directly my email address my I’m the Microsoft Teams every time 724 They can reach reach me out without any doubt. So that’s that’s what I am. I wouldn’t say I’m a coach or something. No, I’m just I’m I’m a team member that will be there to support them at every challenge at every, you know, crossroad that every, you know, every struggle that they’re going to have throughout their journey at Pisano. And even for some of the people that we’ve met, and we couldn’t agree to work together, we will still be there for them to be

Gregorio Uglioni 21:39
understood. And I think it’s this explanation shows how the your humanity, how you really are and how you wanted all the people around you are successful, perhaps, if we close our eyes for two seconds, and we jump in 10 years time from now, what we’re discussing about customer experience. Yeah. And easy,

Ozkan Demir 22:07
isn’t not an easy question. Because you know, people know me know that I’m a full ops guy. So, you know, I’m in every detail. So future questions are usually not for me, either. I like again, I don’t, let’s say I wouldn’t be, you know, talking to highly about, you know, future as I’ve talked about what we’re doing today. We’re passionate to doing everything that we’re doing today, but for future. So at least what I think, come back to the question. So for today, think about all the you know, non people in the experience management, state space, and collect all the number of customers that they have. Company 1234, y’all being of all of them Pisano and some others, let’s say that we have, you know, in our competitive list, we have about 112 companies, even you know, maybe some of them at it, and let and then collect, sum up all the numbers of customers that they have, it’s too small. So it’s still niche. Although we’re pretending like everyone is talking about customer experience, everyone is investing in customer, that’s not true. It’s still too niche. I know how many companies really care and invest in the business in the markets that we are operating. And then when you think about this one, but going back five years, five years ago, it wasn’t here, it wasn’t even 10% of what we are seeing today. So the growth is there. And as you know, you know, by the research and analysis, so this, this market is growing about, you know, 25% every single year, so it’s a huge growth. So when going back to future, I believe it’s become a commodity in 10 years. So when you know we’re talking about, yeah, we work with the biggest banks in country I and, you know, we’ve worked with with this retailer in 10 countries, you know, those are the shining stories that we’re telling, by, you know, from 10 years now, hopefully, when a company registered themselves to the trade registry, as they are investing in accounting today, you know, you can’t you can’t do it without accounting, right? You won’t be able to do it without experience management. So as soon as you start a company, you register yourself to the trade registry, and you’ll say, I need I need the must I need to think about the experience that I provide to my partners, my suppliers, my team and employees and also you know, my customers, of course, so hopefully we will reach out to them in 10 years, maybe even early

Gregorio Uglioni 24:57
death. That’s That’s the hope. Yes, I think It’s a great answer. And even if you said that you are an operator, I think this is really important what you are saying, because nowadays customer experience is still something fluffy for a lot of companies. And it’s important that we understand that customer experiences in sport. It’s important because without customer, there is no business. We are coming to an end of this game, it was really an outstanding game together with you always can. But before you leave my three questions, the first one if somebody would like to contact you, what’s the best way?

Ozkan Demir 25:39
The best way to reach out to me always. LinkedIn, I use LinkedIn a lot I used to throw out. We’d love to actually have everyone listening this podcast that Pisano friends. You know, Pisano academy is a noncommercial nonprofit initiative at Pisano where we would like to reach out to that 10 years goal faster than actually it’s going to happen by itself. So the Summer Academy is a place where we share everything that we love, and everything that we learn, and on the persona of friends, and which is going very nice. And Greg, thank you very much. You’re also Pisano friend. That, you know, we have about 100 people already at Pisano friends that we’re creating content together, we are working together, and we’re planning to turn that into a community. And going back to the conversations that we really had at the beginning about the kindness around trade. And the full experience around trade, I believe the people talking about the experience that we can, we can you know, we can get together and also, you know, define the future of the mic together. So besonderer friends, also a great medium to connect. And we would like to welcome everyone to get here, share their ideas, share their experiences, and shine them together. So Pisano friends could be another area of light for people to connect me. But I’m not hesitant. So whenever I see someone at least customer experience, like word in the title, employee experience, just an experience, I just click on Connect. So if I’m connected to people, and they don’t know me, know, I’m not a salesperson. I don’t connect to you know, send out these, you know, messages of yeah, we’re a beautiful tool would you like to invest in? No, no, I’m there just to learn and share. That’s

Gregorio Uglioni 27:42
what I liked most from the older people, the sales people is do you have 10 minutes for me? Yes, I have a lot of 10 minutes, but for real stuff and not to listen to say strange sales calls. Back to the reality, I think presenter friend friends and in prison Academy, really great, great setups in order to share knowledge to get to know each other, and to grow together and customer experience, as you said, and as you told me some years ago, it’s it’s important to make the cake bigger, and then there is enough for for everybody and customer experience. Make two totally sense. And please connect with with both Ken because it’s outstanding to talk with him, Is there perhaps a book that you would suggest to the audience that you say this book helped me during my career or also for your personal life?

Ozkan Demir 28:40
So that will be that would be one naming one, naming one would be difficult. So I’ll be very honest here. Before pandemic, I was traveling, I was spending a lot of time on the on the road. And due to the time zones that we were managing, you know, starting from Singapore to Canada. It wasn’t it wasn’t easy to you know, really focus on things. And, you know, I wasn’t also having, you know, an efficient way of living. Let’s say, although I was very efficient in traveling, I could be ready in three minutes to fly to anywhere in the world. But you know, back then I didn’t have time. So pandemic helped me a lot. So I started to read a lot before pandemic Honestly speaking, I wasn’t reading that much. Currently I’m reading everything. For example, just you know, last week, customer of ours, his wife wrote a new book. And he shared that with me I’m just expecting that one in 30 minutes to arrive home and I’m going to read that most probably tonight or tomorrow. As soon as as soon as I receive it. And you know I read a lot about a lot classics. I like Russian literature a lot. Although Russian word It’s a little bit dangerous in this point, the reasons that we know. So I like that a lot. You know, but I wouldn’t really say that the one book changed, changed my life now everything just adds up.

Gregorio Uglioni 30:18
Thank you very much. And perhaps the last question and this old scan golden nugget, if something were discussed or something new, that you would leave to the audience.

Ozkan Demir 30:33
Golden Nugget. Yeah, so. So I believe again, let me let me get to one. Let me let me get to one. So, again, we talked about a lot of nice things, we really talk about the golden nugget. So if we talk about the story of Pisano in the history of what we’ve done, as a, you know, I was about 25 years old when I started Pisano and reaching out today. So, I would always say, the best products, the best processes are always developed with the customers. So you know, listening, and understanding them is the basis. And if you act on them properly, it will make the change happen for the customer in the eye of the customer, you they will do it, they will really feel that. So I would say, again, you know, the best products, the best processes, the best companies are always always developed by listening. So I believe that’s also, you know, at the core of the Zen philosophy, so you always start with listening. So what we’ve done in the past were successfully we listened very well. So I would still recommend people, you know, listening while what’s happening around them.

Gregorio Uglioni 32:06
Thank you very much. And I think oats can score the last goal on this CX goalkeeper podcast. It was really outstanding to have you on my podcast. Thank you very much.

Ozkan Demir 32:18
Thanks, Greg. Thanks for having and again, our relationship started with the Pisano Academy back then we didn’t name it as Kitano friends. And hopefully we’re gonna have you back in Pisano Friends soon.

Gregorio Uglioni 32:30
sure. It was a great pleasure. And I hope that the audience enjoyed this discussion as much as I did. Thank you very much.

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