Episode released on: 04. July 2022
The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Sandra Thompson
LinkedIn Headline: Founder of the Ei Evolution CX & EX Consultancy| CX & EX Educator| 1st Goleman Emotional Intelligence Coach in the UK| TEDx speaker| Applied CX & EI course lead| Contributing author to PUNK XL
- 00:00 Game Start
- 00:55 Sandra’s Introduction
- 02:10 CX3
- 03:25 Sandra’s Values
- 06:00 Definition of Emotional Intelligence (EI)
- 08:35 Sandra’s preferred two components of EI
- 10:50 The most difficult competency to explain
- 13:05 The most underrated competencies
- 14:35 The place of emotions in business
- 22:05 Link among emotions, employee experience and loyalty
- 28:50 What are we going to discuss in 10 years related to EI in employee experience
- 31:40 Sandra’s Book Suggestion
- 32:55 Sandra’s Contact Details
- 33:45 Sandra’s Golden Nugget
… and much more
Mentioned by Sandra
- the book: Customer Experience 3 – Writing Matters
- the community: Women in CX
- The emotional culture deck, Jeremey Dean
Sandra’s Contact Details:
Her book suggestion:
- The Element: How Finding Your Passion Changes Everything, Sir Ken Robinson
Sandra’s Golden Nuggets:
- I’d like to invite listeners to think about energy. Because what the psychologists say is that when you’re in a great place, you are in what’s called flow. And when you’re in flow work seems quite seamless. Time flies very easily, and you’re able to produce fantastic work. So I’m inviting you to perhaps write in a journal of when you felt like you were in flow, you were enjoying something and just be aware of your energies. Because I think that when You are not a good energetic space, things are harder. You might give out different vibes, you might not get to a conclusion as quickly. So just be aware of your energy be aware of the energy of other people. And just if you’re able to do something to change your energetic state, and that might be getting up and going for a walk, it might be doing two star jumps. It might be looking at Amy Cuddy’s TEDx about the power pose that can change your energy state. So that’s my golden nugget. Energy, energy energy.
“Just be aware of your energy and the one of other people. And just if you’re able to do something to change your energetic state, and that might be getting up and going for a walk,…” @EvolutionEi on the CX Goalkeeper PodcastTweet
#customerexperience #leadership #cxgoalkeeper #cxtransformation #podcast
Gregorio Uglioni 0:00
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the CX goalkeeper podcast. Your host, Gregorio Uglioni, will have small discussion with experts, thought leaders, and friends on customer experience, transformation, innovation and leadership. I hope you will enjoy the next episode.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the CX goalkeeper Podcast. I’m really thrilled today because I will have an intelligent discussion together with SANDRA THOMPSON, Hi Sandra, how are you?
Sandra Thompson 0:33
Hi, I’m really well, I don’t know who you’re gonna have an intelligent conversation. I can talk to you about emotional intelligence. But we’ll see how we go with the IQ.
Gregorio Uglioni 0:43
That’s true. But if somebody worked for Arsenal, then I think it totally makes sense to br on such a podcast. And yes, I am following you. I am a fan of what you’re saying. And therefore, I know a bit of what you’re explaining. And therefore I’m really happy to have you on this show. And I’m 100% sure we will have an intelligent discussion because you will spread the word of mouth around emotional intelligence. But before we deep dive in the topic, emotional intelligence. Sandra, could you please introduce yourself.
Sandra Thompson 1:16
So I’m Sandra Thompson, I actually started out my career in marketing. And I came across an opportunity to get involved in a CRM, a customer relationship management project, quite some years ago. And at that point, I was really interested in customer experience. So with that in mind, I then left that particular organization having set up a customer experience Patient Experience Program, I’ve worked for myself now as a customer and employ experienced consultant, I do a bit of teaching for the last five years, I teach at a business school in central London. I’m an emotion intelligence coach. So it’s one of those opportunities, I think, over the years for me to have what you would call a portfolio career. And of course, all of these things are interchangeable. There are transferable skills across all. And I just feel really lucky to do what I do, really.
Gregorio Uglioni 2:17
And we feel that you are lucky because you are doing that in a really excellent way. But before we start, and I ask an additional question, I think we need to mention that we already worked together on our project, customer experience three, we wrote this book, Sandra wrote an outstanding chapter. And if you never if you have never read this book, please buy this book, because it totally makes sense. It’s full of insights, a lot of international co authors working together creating this book, it’s it’s really a nice piece of work done by all of us.
Sandra Thompson 2:55
Yeah, I agree. And I think you know, that the contrast in the contents, the perspectives from across the globe, the contribution that people made from their very different experiences, they had very different perspectives. made it a real, I was actually a bit surprised if I’m going to be honest, I was expecting it to be a bit like React, right, your thing submitted, but I found myself spending so much time reading everybody else’s. So yeah, if you haven’t read it already, grab a copy. It is it’s it’s good to actually even if a so so ourselves. Yeah,
Gregorio Uglioni 3:34
exactly. And if fundraising that then it’s clearer than face by joke by side. I would like also to learn a bit more about you and therefore the question that it’s which which values drives you in life?
Sandra Thompson 3:51
I think as I’ve got older, the values that drive me are courage, the courage to challenge in a healthy way to always stand up for what you believe in. And also to take things on, that you think perhaps you might not be ready for. But in actual fact, when you start doing it, you are so ready for it. So number one is courage. I think another value is fairness. And that really is around again, doing the right thing. Making sure that you are in check with yourself that what you’re doing is most reasonable and most fair for all. And if it isn’t fair for a legitimate reason to explain the reason why it might not be fair to some certainly when I worked for the National Trust, which is a which is a charity in the UK, we made some strategic decisions about the way we needed to go forward, which meant that we had to decide to move forward with a small proportion of customer segments rather than everyone. And actually, he didn’t seem fair, but there was good reason behind it. So fairness is another one. And I think, I don’t know if this is a value actually, in fact, I don’t think it is a value. But I would like to throw in, if you don’t mind is humor, fun laughter. And that’s certainly something that I get from the team that I work with in teaching. And it’s definitely something that I get from my peers in women in CX, you know, the ability to laugh at oneself, the ability to see the funny side in stuff when you work so hard, you know. So hopefully, maybe one of those has resonated with your listener.
Gregorio Uglioni 5:46
Yes. And I think not only one more of them, because what you’re sharing, it’s really important. And the last one that you mentioned, is it a value? Or is it not a value? I think it’s really important because there are enough things that are not going so well nowadays, looking around in the world. And therefore, if we have a bit of humor in our life, it will add to be positive. Yeah. Now that we know you a bit more, Sandra, let’s the game start, we already shared the topic, it’s emotional intelligence. And perhaps for the people that don’t really understand this topic or know what you’re speaking about, what’s your definition of emotional intelligence,
Sandra Thompson 6:27
the one that I quote most often is the one that Daniel Goleman developed. So Daniel Goleman, isn’t actually the chap who came up with the idea of emotion intelligence, but he was the one who made it quite famous. He was a writer, for the New York Times, he was a science correspondent, and he talked about the ability to recognize, understand and manage your own emotions, plus, recognizing understand and influencing the emotions of others, if we just sit and think about that for a second, thinking about being able to understand to actually to recognize and understand the emotions that you’re feeling. You know, sounds easy, right? But it’s actually something you have to master over time, because you have to sit quietly for a minute to work out what the sensation is in your body. So that’s what the definition is. That’s the one that I usually use. But there’s a really brilliant Harvard Business Review article, which talks about the 12 elements, the 12, competencies of emotional intelligence. And that’s where he, along with another theorist, breaks down emotional intelligence into 12 competencies. And those 12 Start with self awareness, that point about understanding and recognizing, and the second Biggie, which is self management, so the ability to actually balance the emotions that you’ve got, I don’t say control, they’re quite intentionally. It’s about what is in service of you.
Gregorio Uglioni 8:17
Thank you, Sandra. And I think we are also feeling more emotional at the same time, because as I am really happy to have you on the podcast, but on the other side, I am fear a bit scared, because I don’t know what we are discussing how we are going to say I’m not an expert in this topic, and all the technical setup that needs to work. And therefore, it’s always a balance between different emotions that you have in the same time, and, as you said, trying to ensure that everything works properly, and that we can follow the discussion. You mentioned 12 components. And perhaps instead of mentioning all of them, which one is the one that you prefer the most?
Sandra Thompson 9:00
If you don’t mind, I’m going to actually go for a free kick. And I’m going to mention two, if that’s alright. So the first one is self awareness, because that’s the cornerstone, that’s the key thing that we have all got to work hard to understand before we unlock the others. So that’s, that’s the first thing. And it’s a lifelong journey, because we are exposed to different things. We feel differently, our perception changes and all of that great stuff. The second one, the second one I’m going to pull out actually which is part of self management is positive outlook. And positive outlook is a genuine desire to see positivity in things, and that’s where resilience sets. And this is really important because this isn’t about trying to fool yourself into thinking when everything’s going crazy and it’s not a positive place, trying to tell yourself that everything is fine. Positive, this is genuinely having that vibration of thinking that things are okay, once you’ve worked through what the less nice stuff was. So we know that Martin Seligman talks a lot about resilience in his positive psychology. And he doesn’t, he makes the point that you have got to work through it, you can’t just suddenly go, yeah, positive, thinking positive, I’m going to be positive. It’s not like that you do have to work through these things. And I think the reason why it’s important, and my my kind of second favorite is because number one, if you give yourself permission to work through it. And secondly, you know, you’ll come out the other side, knowing that I think could potentially for a lot of people, help them keep persevering, knowing that there’s light at the end of the tunnel. So I really like positive outlook.
Gregorio Uglioni 10:59
Thank you. And I’m not following the plan of questions. But I need to ask this question. You mentioned 12 components, which one is the most difficult to explain to people like me?
Sandra Thompson 11:14
What’s the most difficult to explain? I think the most difficult, I think the most difficult to explain until you’ve mastered the competency a bit, is organizational awareness. And so the reason why I say that is because and the reason why it can be particularly difficult with how we work remotely, is to suss out where the power really is. So you know, when you go to a meeting, and you’re sat in a room with a bunch of people, and you can see from the exchanges or facial expression, from the language that’s used from the body language in the room, where the power is, you know where it is, you can see it, when you’re on Zoom, or any other type of online platform, particularly have cameras off, you’re not necessarily going to see it immediately. And so I think that organizational awareness can be a bit more tricky to figure out. But if you think about how you have your organizational charts, but then you know, who really are the influences, who are really the decision makers, who is who’s got who’s here. And again, thinking about how you can get work done the most effective way possible within the culture of your organization. So it’s easy to describe, it’s easy to do, when you know what’s going on, it’s increasingly difficult, I think, in the remote space to actually figure out where the power is.
Gregorio Uglioni 13:02
Yes, and the example that you are mentioning, if the camera is also off, then it’s the feeling of, of speaking with wool, or something like that. And therefore, it makes it extremely difficult to understand what we’re really people are sorry, I am genuinely interested in what you’re explaining. And it’s really interesting. And therefore, which one of these competencies is the most underrated?
Sandra Thompson 13:30
coaching and mentoring. So, you’ve got the there are four, there are four kinds of buckets and the 12 sit between each of those four, the last bucket, which is the things that you start to benefit from, once you’ve mastered the while you continue to master but the self awareness, the management bit, and then you’ve got kind of social awareness. This is in relationship management now. So we’re in the final bucket of relationship management. The area here is coaching and mentoring. I think it’s a massive opportunity for peers, so colleagues, and also managers and leaders of staff to do more coaching and mentoring rather than transactional management. Now, of course, there’s always a place for management depending on where the employee is. But coaching is far more critical, particularly for certain personality types, and for emerging talent, who wants to have more autonomy, and they want to have more opportunity to think for themselves. So I think that coaching and mentoring would be my choice there for sure.
Gregorio Uglioni 14:52
Thank you. And perhaps to make that a bit more understandable. You mentioned example in the workplace. And in business, is there a place in business for emotions?
Sandra Thompson 15:07
So I’d like to answer that in three ways. Because actually, that is a very big question. So the first thing I’d like to do is to say, Where does emotion show up? Do we recognize where emotion is? Because I’ve spoken or spoken, I don’t know why I’m laughing because it’s not funny, but it kind of is. You know, I’ve spoken to people who say, there’s no place for emotion here. Or we don’t do in inverted commas. We don’t do emotion here. And then I kind of talked to them about So do you ever feel stress? Yes, I’m always overworked. I feel stressed. Okay, well, that’s an emotion. Right? Okay, brilliant. So you get to a point where you need to identify where emotion is showing up, and also being able to express that emotion. So how are people showing their emotion? Are they upset? Are they silent? Are they full of rage? Are they angry? Are they always joyful? Are they in your face? What does it look like? The other part really is around the kind of acceptance or the ability to appreciate other people’s emotions. And that’s where emotional intelligence comes in. Number one, if you have a skill of emotional intelligence, you’re likely to understand what is coming up in you. That’s the first thing. And the second thing is that you’re likely to be able to moderate unhelpful emotion. And I’m going to bring that to, to an example just being both positive and negative. So number one, if someone gets really angry, and starts to shout, or very stroppy, and sends very curt emails, they’re not actually in a place of managing their emotions. Equally. I know I’m guilty of this, when I am passionate about something I can meet people and my energy levels are sky high. You know, you get both barrels, you get full term dark energy. And actually, that also isn’t always helpful. Because some people are scared of that. They just like what has just happened. So again, from a positive perspective, while I might, my old life, I’d sit there and see these people sitting back in their chairs and think what is going on. And when I turn the volume down just a bit, and I match their emotion or their energy state, then I’m in a much better position, to be able to ensure that the emotion I’m showing is relevant and suitable to the workplace. I can behave like that with my family, when it’s Christmas time where we’re all playing board games, because they know me, and that’s what we all like heaven help us all. But you know, when you’re in the workplace, it might not always be appropriate. So I guess the answer to your question is, you know, what is the emotion? Do you understand what it is? And are you able to express it in a way that is positive for you, and also your colleagues?
Gregorio Uglioni 18:28
It totally makes sense. And I hope that my wife will not listen to this episode, because I’m going to share an example. And she would kill me if she would know that I’m sharing the past yesterday evening, my preferred team won one match, and it was late. It was 11. A night I went, I wanted to go to bed. And they came into the bedroom. And I was thinking because I was extremely happy. And she said, Now you stop, are you where you are going to sleep knots in this bed? Find another one. And therefore exactly what you’re saying this? It can be positive, but can also be be negative. And they totally make sense. And that was for me yesterday evening. Exactly what you’re saying I leave that together. And they said now I need to go to, to to to explain that.
Sandra Thompson 19:17
I just I just wanted to add something there because now there’s a gentleman called Jeremy Dean, who he’s he’s in New Zealand or actually. And he created a product called the emotional culture deck. And he talks about how there’s this myth that people don’t want to talk about emotion in the workplace. And he says, it’s not true. It’s just that people don’t know how to talk about emotion in the workplace in a safe way. So the game that he created and by the way, I’m not I’m not sponsoring it. I’m Not a commission. But the game, the game that he created was literally a card deck with words on it that people could choose to help them describe how they felt. Now, you wouldn’t think it, but it’s a game changer. Because instead of dealing with colleagues on a surface level, giving them some tasks, asking them how they are generally maybe going out for lunch, it’s all very surface, all of a sudden, you actually get to know what is going on, for that individual. And I guess my last point on this is, we are all emotional creatures, all of us, we have chemicals in our body that make us emotional, we need emotion, in order to respond to things. But talking about a company that is devoid of it, or people are unable to express it in any such way, it’s no good for society.
Gregorio Uglioni 21:02
The example that you shared sorry for commenting always, but in the Kinder got, my son is going to the kindergarten. And this in the first year kindergarten is five years old. And in the morning, that one of the first thing that they’re doing, they are saying which in which emotional status they are, they are they are happy, unhappy, feeling bad, feeling good. And I think this is really interesting, because what you’re saying it’s already implemented also also in schools. And, and I think thinking about what you are seeing and what they are doing, it totally makes sense. Because then you can start understanding these children in not on a surface level, but from another level.
Sandra Thompson 21:45
Isn’t that great? Isn’t that great that he has the he has the opportunity to talk about it, to listen to what other people are saying. And through that insight, the teacher has the opportunity to help them manage whatever that is. That is really good news. And I don’t hear that very often. And I’m really happy to hear it today.
Gregorio Uglioni 22:10
Thank you. It’s, it’s, it’s not me. It’s the kid in kindergarten, it’s the public one where I’m where I’m living. Basically, you are speaking about emotions, and you were explaining us in a really clear way that are extremely important in the workplace. How can we link emotions to employee experience? And then to loyalty? Super easy question. I know.
Sandra Thompson 22:38
I’m just gonna break that I’m gonna break that question down. I’m going to break that question down in a number of ways. So the first thing, the first thing, which is a biggie, actually, for me, and I’m doing some work at the moment where we’re exploring this, and we’re really kind of pulling it all apart and unpacking it. The employee experience is simply how are you meeting the needs of humans. That’s it. That’s it. So I’m going to say something controversial, just for a second. And these are not to my own ideas, they’ve come from someone else, but I do believe them, I do believe them. In the workplace, we have lots of policies for this and policies for that, and yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. If you enable me to do the thing that you employed me to do, and you treat me the way, I want to be treated, and you meet my needs. There is that’s all it takes. But the question here is that, why don’t we know more about our employees? So we go for an interview, lovely, got an application for maybe a CV and all that kind of great stuff. But when are you having those kinds of conversations about that person’s values, what they love, what charges them up? How they like to be communicated with? What makes them motivated, what kind of things? What kind of work, what kind of places where they work, what kind of interaction? What kind of team work do they enjoy? Where are those conversations? In any relationship that grows, you find out more about one another in order to exchange value, whether that’s the best friend or a partner or wherever it is. And I just don’t understand why organizations don’t invest more before they recruit, to find out whether there is truly a fit between the individual rather than just knowing if they can achieve the task. So that’s that’s one thing And around employees. The second port point which I think I’ve got this right is around loyalty. And and this is the employees opportunity, they’re kind of their ability to influence loyalty. Now I’m a massive fan of emotional connection, I believe, actually, from my own behaviors and from behaviors of other people around me that if there is an emotional connection between how well the product works, or how intuitive the experience is, or the people that work within that organization, I am unlikely to look anywhere else. Or I might look somewhere, I think they don’t look like the kind of people that I would like to get on with. I used to drive for three hours round trip, to take my car for a service to a man who loved my car as much as me, my car was very, very old. But he looked after it, and I had an emotional connection with him, because I trusted him. And he did a brilliant job. It’s not it’s not rational, because it’s emotional. So the point there is that this particular mechanic, he knew exactly what I needed, he knew exactly how to fit around my schedule. So he did extraordinary things so that I could drop my car off. He, you know, lots of different things that he wouldn’t do for other customers to help me do other stuff. And it meant that I stayed with him for seven years, I did three, three hours round trip. So I suppose the point I’m trying to make is, when you satisfy the needs of your employees, the full, deep needs, they are more likely to want to stay. And if they want to stay, they’re going to do a bit more, because they don’t want to either be performance managed or for you to sack them. I mean, that’s a bit crude to say. But that’s ultimately what we’re talking about here. And because other people are doing a great job, and they’re also exceeding the expectations, perhaps of the brand they want to fit, you know, there’s that whole social peer pressure to do as well as the rest. Very long answer, isn’t it? But the long short of it is satisfy the needs? Am I looking to do something for a higher purpose? Am I just doing nine to five? Because I’ve got financial constraints I need to fit within? Or actually, am I looking to grow myself personally and lots of other needs, you just need to understand them.
Gregorio Uglioni 27:40
Cool. Thank you, Sandra. This was like a masterclass. Broadcast itself, thank you very much. It was really, really interesting. And, and I think, at the end, it’s like in customer experience, if you have satisfied customer, they will come back. And if you can relate with your customer in a deeper way. And this is emotion based, as you were saying, then they would come back and do three hours round round trips to get the car fixed.
Sandra Thompson 28:11
Yeah, I mean, I’m gonna, I’m gonna question that a little bit. Because I have a love hate relationship with satisfied. If I’m satisfied, you’ve done enough. If I’m emotionally connected, I will forgive you when you make a mistake. And I will certainly feel far more fulfilled than just satisfied. And I think that that’s often a misunderstanding we have within the world of CX that if customers are satisfied, they’ll be loyal. It is not the truth. Because it’s just good enough, it will do.
Gregorio Uglioni 28:46
It totally makes sense. And as a football fan, or soccer fan, I can understand that if you’re emotionally involved, then you are spreading positive word of mouth, even if your team lost too much. And therefore, yes, it totally makes sense. You can forgive much more if you’re emotionally connect. Yeah, totally makes sense. Thank you, Sandra. The last question I would ask in around this topic, it’s now we are speaking about the understanding about emotional intelligence that from my point of view, a science in itself. What are we going to discuss in 10 years about emotional intelligence related to employee experience?
Sandra Thompson 29:32
I think that people will start to expect far more transparency I mean, it’s already started hasn’t it with with organizations being called out when they are sections with their empathy. So I think this is about sincere grounded, sustainable empathy or empathetic expression. But I think there’s something else in here, which I think might be excused upon a bit of a curveball. I think there are things happening in technology, which will enable us to trust more. And I don’t really know what I’m talking about here, but I’m just going to chuck it in. So someone who does know, maybe you also know, things like blockchain, you know, in the years to come, the balance of power between the customer and the organization, I think is going to shift. I think it’s already shifting. And I think the need for organizations to harness more technologies that enable customers to have trust, consistency, transparency, will mean that everything else that goes on in the organization has to be attuned to that. So what does that mean? I think it means that not just frontline staff, but back office leadership board, they all have to be understanding the human psyche, to know exactly what they should be buying, and what they should be investing in, in order to make that emotional connection. And blockchain I think might be the thing that will enable us to do far more to enrich that experience, to cut out a load of rubbish in journeys, and also to create that transparency and take out a lot of the middle men as it as it would be called.
Gregorio Uglioni 31:43
Thank you very much, Sandra, it was really an outstanding discussion. Thank you for all these insights that you are given to us. Now we are coming to the to the end of the game. But I still have three questions for you. And there are easy question not so complicated as the former one. And is there a book that you would like to suggest to the audience because it helps you during your career or during your life?
Sandra Thompson 32:08
I mentioned this actually, last week on LinkedIn, and I hadn’t realized how much it influenced me until I saw the clip. So this book is called the element. It’s called the element how finding your passion changes everything by a gentleman, the late Sir Ken Robinson. It’s about what you do to grow. It’s about education. It’s about our perception of learning. And for me, it was a game changer, because it made me realize that I was doing a bunch of things that actually I wasn’t that passionate about when I read the book. And as soon as I started to cut out those things that I could afford to leave off, I found myself being far more productive, and in a really great space. So Ken, Sir Ken Robinson, the element, it’s a great read.
Gregorio Uglioni 33:08
Thank you very much. And I think we learned a lot during this discussion. But why I think people would like to deep dive a bit in this topic, how is it possible to contact you?
Sandra Thompson 33:20
LinkedIn? i It’s like my advice, actually, I’m on LinkedIn every day is best to catch me there. And message me with the contact details are all on the platform there. I have a website, eievolution.com. Message me through there. I’m always interested in having conversations with people who are looking to understand more about emotion, intelligence, and also to exchange notes. And lots of people are doing work in empathy, in compassion. So this isn’t new stuff. People are doing it, I want to hear about it. I want to know what great things have come from the efforts that are out there.
Gregorio Uglioni 34:01
Thank you very much, Sandra. And now we are really coming to the last minutes of this match. And this is the most important question is the last piece of advice from your side. It’s Sandra golden nugget. It’s something that we discussed or something new that you would like to leave to the audience.
Sandra Thompson 34:20
I’d like to invite listeners to think about energy. Because what the psychologists say is that when you’re in a great place, you are in what’s called flow. And when you’re in flow work seems quite seamless. Time flies very easily, and you’re able to produce fantastic work. So I’m inviting you to perhaps write in a journal of when you felt like you were in flow, you were enjoying something and just be aware of your energies. Because I think that when You are not a good energetic space, things are harder. You might give out different vibes, you might not get to a conclusion as quickly. So just be aware of your energy be aware of the energy of other people. And just if you’re able to do something to change your energetic state, and that might be getting up and going for a walk, it might be doing two star jumps. It might be looking at Amy Cuddy’s TEDx about the power pose that can change your energy state. So that’s my golden nugget. Energy, energy energy.
Gregorio Uglioni 35:39
Thank you very much, Sandra. This was really an outstanding golden nugget. We are energized from this discussion. It was really great to have you on the six goalkeeper podcast. Thank you very much, Sandra.
Sandra Thompson 35:52
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a delight.
Gregorio Uglioni 35:56
Thank you, Sandra. And I suppose that the audience enjoyed this discussion as much as I did. I think we want 12 zero because we have 12 components. And but at the end, it’s up to you, ladies and gentleman to decide if we want or if you lost but we would like to get your feedback. Please let us know what you think about emotional intelligence. How I can improve this podcast. It was a great pleasure. Thank you very much. Thank you.
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