Episode released on: 29. August 2022
The Magic of Disney World with Dennis Snow – Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper
The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Dennis Snow
LinkedIn Headline: Customer Service Keynote Speaker, Consultant, and Author
Highlights:
- 00:00 Game Start
- 00:30 Dennis’ introduction
- 03:31 Dennis’ values
- 05:19 Disney, what are the key ingredients to be so successful in this magic world?
- 09:30 Disney is offering a great experience But let’s quite expensive…
- 13:38 People want always to come back
- 14:47 How is it possible that cast members are always so friendly?
- 18:56 Onstage and backstage.
- 21:23 What can companies learn from Disney?
- 25:50 Talking about CX: what are we going to discuss about in 10 years?
- 28:24 Dennis’ book suggestion
- 30:08 Dennis’ Contact details
- 32:03 Dennis’ Golden Nugget
and much more…
Guest’s Contact Details:
- dennis AT snowassociates DOT com
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennissnow/
- https://www.snowassociates.com
His book suggestion:
- The power of moments by Chip and Dan Heath
Guest’s Golden Nuggets:
- Everything speaks
- Everything that you do in an organization, do it with an experience mentality versus a task mentality. Every job has its tasks. And in some cases, you can tell that’s what the person is focused on, is they’re focused on doing the tasks. And when we do what we do with a task approach, our customers feel processed. And it’s difficult to feel that emotional connection when you feel like you’ve been processed, where if somebody, an employee is doing what they do with an experience mentality, customers feel valued. Now, you’ve got something that’s going to create loyalty.
- In everything that we do, whether we’re creating something or we’re having an interaction, do it with an experience mentality versus a task mentality.
Dennis’ books:
- Lessons From The Mouse LINK TO AMAZON
- Unleashing Excellence: The Complete Guide To Ultimate Customer Service LINK TO AMAZON
“In everything that we do, whether we’re creating something or we’re having an interaction, do it with an experience mentality versus a task mentality.” @DennisSnow on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast
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“Everything speaks” @DennisSnow on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast
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Transcription:
Gregorio Uglioni 0:00
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the CX goalkeeper podcast, your host, Gregorio Uglioni, will have small discussion with experts, thought leaders, and friends on customer experience, transformation, innovation and leadership. I hope will enjoy the next episode,
Ladies and gentlemen tonight. It’s really a big pleasure because I hace Dennis Snow together with me. Hi, Dennis, how are you?.
Dennis Snow 0:27
I’m doing very, very well, Greg, how are you doing?
Gregorio Uglioni 0:30
Well, thank you very much. I am really pleased, pleased. And really, I’m thrilled to have this discussion with you because it will be magic. Everybody already knows you. But now I have the opportunity to have you on my soccer pitch. And I’m really happy to have this discussion, this game together with you. Thank you very much. Let’s let’s start. As usual, I ask my guests to shortly introduce themselves. And they would like to do that also, in this case, Dennis, could you please introduce yourself?
Dennis Snow 1:00
Sure. Yeah, it’s Dennis Snow. And my background is primarily with Walt Disney World in Florida. I started out on the front lines as an attractions operator, you know, running the rides, wonderful job, got into management and manage different operating areas around the company, then was with the Disney University, which was the internal training arm of the company. And we spun off a division called the Disney Institute, where companies would come to benchmark best practices with us. And I did that for several years. And then I left after 20 years, I left Disney and went out on my own. And I’ve been speaking and training and consulting on the idea of customer service, every everything I do, is is customer service oriented. I use my Disney background quite a bit for that discussion. But it’s helping companies create that, that loyalty driving experience. That’s, that’s my passion. And so I’ve been doing that for 23 years now, which I can’t believe
Gregorio Uglioni 2:09
it’s really super interesting what you are doing. And then is when you wrote also two outstanding books, could you please share them with the audience, and I will ensure that I will put them in the show notes.
Dennis Snow 2:20
Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, one of the books is called unleashing excellence. And it’s a blueprint for a company that says, We want to improve the service. And it covers everything from defining what that means to hiring and training and communication, accountability, you know, all those important topics. And then the other one is called Lessons from the mouse, which is kind of an obvious title. It’s the 10 key things that I learned about customer experience from my days at Disney. So those are the two books that I’ve written, people say, Why don’t you write another one? And I said, Well, everything, I noticed that the first two, those are the the key things that I think are at the heart of a service driven organization,
Gregorio Uglioni 3:09
then please also add myself to the list. And I ask also when it’s coming to next one, because these two books that are really outstanding, thank you very much from Romania, for mentioning them. Thank you. It’s a great pleasure at the end, you wrote them, and you deserve all the recognition for what you did.
Dennis Snow 3:28
I appreciate that. A big pleasure.
Gregorio Uglioni 3:31
And one question that it’s also relevant for me, it’s which values drive you in life?
Dennis Snow 3:38
Which values drive drive my own personal life? Yes. The probably the biggest one from an overall perspective is do what you said you’re going to do. And being you know, that follow through of the integrity that if you say you’re going to do something that you’d do it, if you say you’re going to be somewhere you’d be there, if you say you’re going to do something at this time you do it by that time or earlier. I think you know, that is an umbrella that goes over everything. And then the other one, it’s kind of connected to that. But regardless of how I feel, to treat everybody with respect and dignity, whether I agree with them or disagree with them. We can we can argue things all day long. But at the end, I think it’s important that we we treat each other with that respect and dignity no matter how we we might feel about the situation. And I think that applies to service as well. Because as you know, and I know and everybody watching knows, not everything goes according to plan. And sometimes there are problems of customers and but we still need to treat them with respect and dignity. So those are two of the things that I think really. I tried to live my life by, by trying treating people right and and doing the things that I said I’m going to do, whether it’s from business or personal, whatever it may be.
Gregorio Uglioni 5:19
totally make sense. Thank you very much. And if you allow myself, I think these are also values of the cast members. It means employees of these names. And today, this is the big topic, we are speaking about the magic of Disney you spoke about a mouse, it’s Mickey Mouse. I am really happy and thrilled to have this discussion with you, perhaps really the easiest question that we have Disney, what are the key ingredients to be so success successful in this magic world?
Dennis Snow 5:53
Well, I try to keep things very simple. Because I think sometimes we overcomplicate things. And so I would say the key ingredient, if you boil it, to a nugget of, of how you approach what you do in business, it’s, it’s this phrase, everything speaks. And so Disney is very focused on the details, everything speaks. So when you when you go into the park, or the hotels or whatever, wherever it is, you’re going, every detail is meticulously focused on to make sure that it reinforces the Disney brand. So you go into the Magic Kingdom. First thing you see is the castle. And it’s this, you know, the camera comes out immediately. And it’s magic. And if you look at all of the little physical details, they’re all just right, even down to the trash cans, and trash and they study how far people will carry a piece of trash or garbage before they throw it on the ground. And they study things like that. So they put the trash cans at a distance, that increases the likelihood that you’re going to put the trash in the trash can. But what they do is they design the trash cans to blend into the environment, so that you don’t really see it until you need it. And suddenly, there’s a trash can, right there. Well, it’s always been there, but blend it in until you need it. So from a physical standpoint, everything speaks from the cast members. You know, you mentioned you had you even have the language down the cast members were the the employees that they’re a big part of the show, that the that they call their uniforms, costumes, that that they’re designed to fit the environment that that that particular cast member is working in the way the cast members interact with the guests, you know, the tone of voice we talk about, we train the cast members in tone of voice and body language, and all of those things that when you and I are talking if you’re a guest at Disney World, and we’re having an interaction, that every detail about my performance either enhances the Disney brand, or it detracts from the brand. So very carefully trained on how to make sure that those details speak the way they’re supposed to speak, the smells, the sounds, you know, all the sensor, everything that’s that’s around you, is designed to fit the particular location that you’re in. So the what I would ask people to take away from that, is that key phrase to be thinking about? Everything speaks. So if that’s true, what’s what are all the details from the design of your website? To the the the voicemail message on your telephone? is enhancing the experience? Or is it detracting the experience? You know, a lot of times I’ll call somebody on the phone. And it’s the original mechanical message that you get. And so did I get the right person is that the person that I meant to call? And it just took away a little bit of that, that experience so so that’s the magic that what I would say is the magic ingredient is that everything speaks. So let’s make sure every detail says what it’s supposed to say.
Gregorio Uglioni 9:29
Thank you very much and you’re touching quite a lot of relevant and interesting topics that we are going to discuss like employee experience, but before we deep dive in the employee experience one thing that that people are saying and perhaps also quoting one important books, and the experience economy, we are speaking about time while saved and time well spent and Disney it’s the best or the perfect example of time well spent. And basically, Disney is offering a great experience But let’s quickly speak about the price. It’s not so cheap to go there
Dennis Snow 10:06
though now, when I first started working at Disney World, believe it or not, it was it was $7.50 to get into the park, and now it’s 100 and something dollars. So yeah, nobody would ever say Disney is a nonprofit organization. And so there’s a, there’s a definite balance, and what it comes down to is value. Are you. So are you providing the value that outweighs the cost. And if you are, then the likelihood is people might say, Oh, that was really expensive. That was very expensive. But it was worth it. So if you go back to Walt Disney, his philosophy was, it doesn’t really concern me, this is wall talking. It doesn’t really concern me what people think about the price coming in. It’s what they think about the experience coming out. And as long as that experience exceeds the value, now, certainly there’s there’s a threshold, you know, that as you increase pricing, you might be eliminating some of your audience. But if you go, and it amazes me, when I go to Disney World today, you know, at the price of $120, I think it is now to get in. When I go today, the place is packed, every day, it’s packed. So obviously they’re delivering the value that people might say, Yes, it is expensive. But but it was it was worth it. It’s very hard nowadays, and I think you would agree with me on this, it’s very hard nowadays to compete on price. People can replicate your privacy, you know, there’s always there’s always somebody that can that can discount further than you did. But if you’re looking at it, as we’re competing on the experience, now you really have something to work with, how can we be unique in the marketplace? So that it’s a memorable experience? It’s a it’s a loyalty driving experience. And that goes back to our the first question where I talked about everything speaks, that’s the, that’s the magic sauce is making sure that all of those details are adding value to the experience. And so, again, you know, going back to the cost is putting the the investment into those things that are going to have the greatest impact on the experience. So that’s what I would say to be a price is always going to be important, you can never say price has nothing to do it. Yeah, I guess there are people out there that that may be true, but but for, for the majority of us their price is important. But the value is the key differentiator, the value that you’re adding to the experience. Because people get hamburgers and a lot of different places, right, they can get a soft drink and a lot of different places they can buy a car and a lot of different places. But an excellent experience is a differentiator. So that’s the way they they make decisions about things. If we’re going to raise our prices, we need to make sure that the value still exceeds the price. So that may entail an investment that they need to make. But it all plays into that decision making process.
Gregorio Uglioni 13:38
Thank you very much. And I think at the end, it’s reality families are saving months or years to go in this Disney park. And the first thing that they are saying is I want to come back.
Dennis Snow 13:51
That’s, that’s the big thing. And you make a very good point. to that. That’s one of the things that’s communicated all the time with with the cast members employees, is you have to remember that many of these guests have saved for years for this experience. And you can’t have a bad day, you when you’re on stage, you’re on stage. Because again, these guests, they may have traveled from anywhere in the world. They’ve spent a tremendous they’ve saved they’ve spent a tremendous amount of money. It’s a dream come true for many of the guests, and it only takes one negative person, you know, employee to start tearing that down. So they reinforced that with the cast members all the time, how special these moments are.
Gregorio Uglioni 14:47
But what you’re saying it’s really a big question that all people have. How is it possible that cast members are always so friendly, happy and are always doing what what With customer needs.
Dennis Snow 15:01
Yeah. And, you know, I get that question a lot, you know, how did how does Disney get their people to be so friendly? The easy answer, but it’s true. It’s true is first they hire friendly people. So the the the interview process is designed to bring in people that are wired that way. So they have a very carefully crafted interviewing and hiring process. And not just from the interview where I’m interviewing you. But the process itself is designed to treat you as an interviewee as a guest. So it’s modeling the culture, the the the interview process itself, models, the culture of the organization, because that’s what you’re going to be expected to do when you’re out on the job. So I always say the training starts with the interview process, you know, how you’re treated there. So they, they put a lot of effort into the hiring process, then they do train, when you first come on board, you go through a program called Disney traditions, and it talks about the history of the company and those kinds of things. But it also talks about your role in the show, and the importance of what you do and how you do it, regardless of what the job is, regardless of whether your frontline cast memory, or the Vice President of Marketing, everybody goes through that same training. And that’s where they talked about the whole idea of, you know, the the interactions that you have with the guests and the, the way you treat them. So that onboarding process, then ongoing training, you know, as you think about the not as a leader, the numbers of times you’re interacting with those that that that you lead, whether it’s in meetings, emails that you send, you know, meeting, events that you put on, you can reinforce those values in everything that you do, as as a leader. So I always say we, as leaders, we have to be relentless of keeping that message in front of our people. And then finally, and it’s, it’s true, is it’s non negotiable. So it’s not, we really would like you to be good with the guests and treat them nice, you know, we hope that you do that. No, it’s it’s non negotiable. That’s the job. That is that is the job. So if somebody is not living the values, they’re coached on it, they can’t, they could never say, Well, I didn’t know I was supposed to do that. Because going back, they, they were trained on all of that. So they’re coached on it. And then finally, if somebody just doesn’t get it, they’re the they’re let go. And it was a miss hire. And that happens to that that happens in companies. So all of that again, you know, how do you get your people to be so friendly, you hire friendly people, you train and communicate relentlessly. And it’s non negotiable. You know, that’s, that is the job. And I remember as a frontline supervisor, out in the parks, the the another thing that we were expected to do is to show appreciation for the cast members and the work that they’re doing. Because if you’ve been to Florida, especially this time of year, you know, it’s brutally hot out there. And just to go over and tell people Oh, man, I know. It’s hot. You’re doing a great job. You know, I saw how you handled that. Guests experience. That was good show. Yeah, that was that was Disney. But it all goes back to reinforcing those core core principles.
Gregorio Uglioni 18:56
Thank you very much. You mentioned two words that for me are familiar because I am started. I started studying a bit about Disney, onstage and backstage. Yeah, could you please elaborate a bit on that?
Dennis Snow 19:07
Sure. Onstage is wherever those you are serving are so in a store, obviously the store Florida restaurant, you know, the the interior of the restaurant. So we call that onstage when you’re in the park so the hotels where the guests are any place a guest is that’s on stage, backstage is behind the scenes and that’s where things like deliveries take place. You know, the cast member cafeterias the the the locker rooms where you get ready for the day, those things that should be out of sight that are necessary for the business, but are out of sight of the of the guests. But there’s a subtle to the to that too, and that let’s have a count As a member, but I work backstage, I work in the cast member cafeteria. Well, that’s my onstage, that cafeteria is my onstage. So making sure that that is show ready for my guests who are my fellow cast members. So it permeates the whole organization, whether you’re dealing with the paying guests who are coming in, or you’re interacting with cast members, it’s all the same, the philosophies are all the same, maybe not to the same degree in terms of the money that they would put into building the Cinderella’s castle and the money that they put into building in the cafeteria. There obviously, would be some differences there. But in the care and treatment, and as I said earlier, the respect and dignity. So imagine if I’m a backstage cast member, and you’re an onstage cast member, and I treat you poorly in the cafeteria, when you come down to get your meal, and I treat you poorly, that might translate to you going on stage in a bad, bad mood. So it has to permeate the whole, no matter what you do, it has to permeate the whole organization.
Gregorio Uglioni 21:15
Thank you.
Dennis Snow 21:16
So again, so get onstage, whoever it is you’re serving on stage is where those people are.
Gregorio Uglioni 21:22
Thank you very much, it totally makes sense. And I really like these examples. Because at the end, the cast members are outside onstage doing everything that it’s possible, and in the backstage needs to work properly, and cast members also human beings, and therefore they need time to rest, to recover to regenerate energies. And it totally makes sense, right, right. Now trying to leave the magic of Disney. What can real word company learn from Disney?
Dennis Snow 21:54
Well, I think that the the, the best thing that any company can learn from from a company like Disney, is to remember that products and services are commodities. And I touched on this earlier products and services are commodities. People can there’s always somebody that’s that can duplicate, or maybe even prove the physical product itself. And so while that’s important, they are commodities, you know, if you if you work at a bank, yeah, there’s a bank, the bank on every corner, we have a lot of choices. So those are commodities, great experiences. That’s the differentiator. So what I think any company can learn from Disney is to recognize, we need to put our focus on what’s the experience from start to finish, and the various channels through which our customers interact with us? How can we make sure that it’s designed with a purpose in mind? Versus is just, you know, we have to have this so we do it? No, it’s it needs to reflect the brand, it must reflect the brand. So I’ve, I’ve worked with banks, I’ve worked with hospitals, I’ve worked with funeral homes. I’ve worked with just about every industry that you can think of. And you can take those those core service and experience, philosophy, philosophies and principles and apply them to any industry. And so I think it comes down to recognizing people can duplicate our products. But we’re going to create a unique experience that that our competitors cannot duplicate.
Gregorio Uglioni 23:55
Thank you very much. It totally makes sense. And I really like what you’re saying, because in order shows where you were there, you will often also mentioned that you need to define which experience do we want to deliver, which is the target experience that you want to deliver. And for me, this is really the key link to what you said earlier that companies need to understand because I see a lot of companies having a big project portfolio trying to implement 10 projects at the same times with concurrent targets. And then you cannot really deliver the experience that you want. Because everybody one project is trying to standardize standardize the process. The other one is to create to personalize processes, and the other one is doing to do something different and that’s not possible. Therefore, I think what you are saying it’s really key.
Dennis Snow 24:47
Yeah, I think you’re right on that. That’s the other thing that I think is very important. I think you’ve made an excellent point is that that core philosophy has to be across us all elements of the organization. If you have conflicting purposes, across the organization, you can end up with a very inconsistent experience. Depending on which division of the company you’re interacting with, or who you’re talking to. There’s good there, there must be a clear understanding of this is who we are as an organization, this is our brand, as an organization, so that everything connects if you go to Disney World, or any of the Disney parks, wherever you are, it should feel like Disney. Versus as well. Now I’m in this area. So I get this experience time in this area. And it’s a dip. No, it’s still people need to say this is Disney. Yeah.
Gregorio Uglioni 25:50
Thank you very much i for the confirmation of what I’m saying. We are coming to an end of this of this podcast, but Oh, wow. I I still have one question. And now in 10 years from now, what are we speaking about customer experience?
Dennis Snow 26:09
Yeah. And it’s, first of all, let me say, I don’t know, because it’s changed. Everything’s changing so quickly. But I think the the thing that I do know is, the channels through which your customers are going to be interacting with your company with your organization, is going to continue to evolve and expand. And we need to ensure that consistency, that if What if I call your contact center, and getting to get an answer to a question, and then I interact through email with somebody else about the same issue, and there’s a very different feel a very different philosophy. That’s, that’s inconsistent. Okay, you just eroded my trust in the experience. So I think over the next 10 years, that’s what that one of the key for leadership is going to make sure is no matter how our customers are interacting with us, that we need to be projecting that same brand, regardless of the channel. And I think I think COVID has has made people more aware of that, that when COVID hit suddenly, people were interacting with companies in different ways than they had before, or it was increased anyway. And I think people started to become more aware of that of Oh, we didn’t think that through. We didn’t it make sure that it’s a consistent experience. So I believe that the face to face interaction, or the personalized interaction is never going to go away. I think that’s always going to be an important part of the mix. And how do we take these various channels and personalize them in the way that reflects our brand? That I? So I don’t know what those channels are going to be. But I do know that’s an important thing for management to be focused on is how do we how do we make sure they’re branded to our, our, our way of doing business?
Gregorio Uglioni 28:24
Thank you very much, Dennis. The game is coming to an end, then the last few minutes. My three short questions. The first one is, is there a book that you would like to suggest to the audience because it’s helped you during your career or in your personal life? Yeah,
Dennis Snow 28:39
it’s always hard to narrow books down to, to one but so there’s a lot of books that are that are out there that I think are wonderful. I’m a voracious reader. But there’s one that it reflects so many of the things, Greg, that you and I have been talking about is called the power of moments. I don’t know if you’ve heard of this book by Chip, and Dan Heath, H E A, T H. It’s called The Power of moments. And it doesn’t just focus on business, it focus on the power of moments in your family life and your personal life and business life. It reflects on on all of those. But it talks about many of the things that we’ve been touching on is that so many things come down to memorable moments. And you earlier you mentioned another excellent book, the experience economy. It’s it’s a similar theme, a similar feel to it that moments matter, that that the moment that I as an employee may not think as a big deal, but it is to that customer. You know, when I’m ringing up in the grocery store, when I’m ringing up a sale, that moment matters. That’s the last interaction that I have with that grocery store and that that overall experience Did you know that mount that moment matters. So it’s called The Power of moments. And it’s Chip and Dan Heath, I highly recommend it.
Gregorio Uglioni 30:08
Thank you very much. And if somebody would like to contact you what’s the best way?
Unknown Speaker 30:13
The best way is probably email. Because wherever I am, you know, I’ve always got my my phone in the server, probably the best way is email, which is Dennis at Snowassociates. that’s all one word snowassociates.com. That’s probably the because then you know, I get it instantly. And I return as quickly as I possibly can. Even if it’s just say, Hey, I’m doing this. And let’s set up a time we can talk. Because it’s a subject, this is a subject I’d love to talk about. So nine times out of 10. When somebody reaches out to me, I’ll try and make a time when we can do a zoom call or have a phone call. Because by the I still love that personal touch. You know, we’re you’re actually talking with somebody, I’m at that I’m old enough for that still really important to me.
Gregorio Uglioni 31:10
Thank you very much. And I can confirm that you quickly answer to the emails, because that’s the way I connected to get together with you. I think you have also a great newsletter. Do you want to share that?
Unknown Speaker 31:21
Well, yeah, so on my website, we use the website as the hub of all the information, videos, newsletters, videos, you know, and all of those things. So it’s www of course, dot snowassociates.com. And so whether it’s blog posts, videos, that I’ve created, just little notes that I may have created about something, information about the services that we provide, of course, my books, and so forth. We have an online training program that companies use, but we use the website is the hub for all of that. So snowassociates.com.
Gregorio Uglioni 32:03
Thank you very much. I will put all this information on also in the show notes.
Dennis Snow 32:07
Oh, wonderful Thank you.
Gregorio Uglioni 32:08
Sure. And now we are coming to the to the last question is then this golden nugget. It’s something that we discussed or something new, that you would leave to the audience.
Dennis Snow 32:20
So I would say the golden nugget that is memorable, in addition to that idea of everything speaks, because that stays with people I find, but I would say is in everything that we do. Everything that you do is as in an organization, do it with an experience mentality versus a task mentality. You know, every job has its tasks. And in some cases, you can tell that that’s what the person is focused in on is they’re focused on doing the tasks. And when when we do what we do with a task approach, our customers feel processed. And it’s difficult to feel that connection, that that emotional connection when you feel like you’ve been processed, where if somebody, an employee is doing what they do with an experience mentality, customers feel valued. And that’s a whole now now you’ve got something that’s going to create the loyalty. So I would say the golden nugget is in everything that we do, whether we’re creating something or we’re having an interaction, do it with an experience mentality versus a task mentality.
Gregorio Uglioni 33:28
Thank you very much. I can only conclude saying it was magic. Thank you very much for your time. Dennis, please stay stay with me and to the audience. Thank you very much. It was a great pleasure. As usual, if you have feedback, please let me know if you want to get in touch with Dennis. He shared all the contact in details. You will find the contact details also in the show notes. Thank you very much.
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