5 Steps On How To Set Up Your CX Business Unit with Mandisa Makubalo – E91

Episode released on: 12. September 2022

5 Steps On How To Set Up Your CX Business Unit with Mandisa Makubalo Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper

The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Mandisa Makubalo

LinkedIn Headline: Founder & Principal Practitioner at Unlimited Experiences SA


  • 00:00 Game Start
  • 00:46 Mandisa’s introduction
  • 01:48 Mandisa’s value
  • 02:55 The idea of the article “5 Steps On How To Set Up Your CX Business Unit”
  • 05:59 Overview of the article “5 Steps On How To Set Up Your CX Business Unit”
  • 07:17 The 4 tips
  • 10:51 The meaning of Design for Value
  • 14:38 The 5 steps described in “5 Steps On How To Set Up Your CX Business Unit”
  • 25:52 The masterplan
  • 28:42 The future of CX
  • 30:36 Mandisa’s book suggestion
  • 32:35 Mandisa’s contact details
  • 33:37 Mandisa’s Golden Nugget

and much more

Mandisa’s Contact Details:

Her book suggestion:

  • Customer Experience 3 by Writing Matters

Mandisa’s Golden Nuggets:

  • Dare to be different: challenge the status quo. Bring yourself into this, bring your wisdom, your experiences, your education, bring all of that but just dare to be different. We are not in competition. That’s about perpetuating the CX game. It’s not about who’s there for 20 years, who get the accolades. It’s just about really perpetuating the game of CX

“Dare to be different: challenge the status quo. Bring yourself into this, bring your wisdom, your experiences, your education, bring all of that but just dare to be different.” @MakubaloMiss on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast

“We are not in competition. That’s about perpetuating the CX game. It’s not about who’s there for 20 years, who get the accolades. It’s just about really perpetuating the game of CX.” @MakubaloMiss on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast

#customerexperience #leadership #cxgoalkeeper #cxtransformation #podcast


Gregorio Uglioni 0:00
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the CX goalkeeper podcast. Your host, Gregorio Uglioni. Will have small discussion with experts, thought leaders and friends on customer experience, transformation, innovation and leadership. I hope you will enjoy the next episode, ladies and gentlemen, and tonight it’s really a big, big pleasure because I have Mandisa on the CX goalkeeper podcast. This is really a great opportunity. I love what Mandisa is doing and she did in the past. And I’m looking forward to this discussion. Hi Mandisa, how are you?

Mandisa Makubalo 0:37
our Hello, Greg. I’m good. Thank you very, very good, excited. Looking forward to this amazing conversation.

Gregorio Uglioni 0:46
As we were discussing in advance, it will be a game and the pitch is for us now we have time to discuss. And we selected also an extremely interesting topic. You wrote an article five steps on how to set up CX business units. But before start speaking about the content, we want to learn something from you and extremely important customer experience player customer experience, thought leader, it’s Mandisa, Mandisa, could you please introduce yourself.

Mandisa Makubalo 1:15
So I’m Mandisa Makubalo. By law, I live in Cape Town, in South Africa in the township of Kukuletu, which means our pride. I’m a single mom, to a 24 year old, beautiful daughter. I come from a family of two, I’m the eldest to have my young brother. My mom is still alive, I still live with her. She’s about 75 years old. And I am a born again, Christian. I’m a believer in God. You know, and I’m a lover of life. Just I just I just think life is beautiful.

Gregorio Uglioni 1:48
I am really keen to ask the next question. Next question, because I’m, I don’t know what it will, it will come. But I am sure I will learn something. And it’s not the simplest question, but which values drive you in life?

Mandisa Makubalo 2:04
The biggest one is love, love. I just think we’ve complicated love. As human beings. Love is meant to be simple and enjoyed. It’s such a rare gift. But I think we’ve just complicated things, sometimes unconsciously, sometimes consciously. So love is the biggest one. And then follow into that is respect. You know, I believe that we need to respect I know that people say, Respect is earned. But I just think that, you know, we just need to respect people, respect. Even animals respect animals. There’s just this respect that needs to come. I think it makes things so much easier. And the third one that’s close to my heart is unity. I’m all about just be united as people. And I think love does that love unites us.

Gregorio Uglioni 2:55
And this is a strong sentiment and with laughter You can unite people. And I think this also the magic behind soccer teams and customer experience says they need to work together with one goal everybody doing the best or best or is best in order to achieve that. And you did also something that is extremely interesting, I have the opportunity to read that is this article that I mentioned earlier, five tips on how to set up your customer experience business unit. The first question I will do is where does the need come from to create such an important article.

Mandisa Makubalo 3:33
So I’m consistently looking at what happens in the market. I’m consistently following businesses trying to see where I can add value, where can bring a fresh perspective. So what I had done is I’m sorry, I spent a couple of weeks looking at all of these job opportunities that are coming up adverts for positions in the CX space predominantly. And I also looked at, you know, what was the similarities within this job specs? What are the gaps? What are the opportunities? You know, what were companies communicating to this job adverts? Because that’s a communication, it’s actually giving you a lens into the company. That’s my perspective, you know, if you really want to know what’s going on, where the company is going, what’s the priorities? You look at the job specs, you know, that tells you the product priorities. And I had a series of conversations with CX business leaders that will all talking about their challenges with, you know, winning those budget battles with budget approvals for setting up their teams. It’s a big frustration. You know, on the one end, I’m seeing all of this job specs coming up, popping up everywhere. And on the side, I’m hearing this, no, this business was saying that we mentioned we’re not getting budget approvals, and I realized that was a problem. So then I decided to put my own perspectives into that article, but in that time, lo and behold, there was an organization that approached me to say Mandisa, we’re looking to set up a business unit CX business unit, but we really don’t know where to begin. So I got to really test what is in the article. You know, I spent about two weeks with the C level executives of the organizations, really just consulting and guiding them into what are the key things to look out? How do you design for value, you know how to avoid those, those budget battles. Interestingly, for me, I also got to sit in a room and observe them as they were talking. And I got to pick up so many things in those conversations, as they were talking, engaging across the room, looking at operations, looking at the C level executives, there was so much information that are caught from the body language, you know, the emotions being expressed. So I took the information from that qualitative research exercise, and the quantitative research that occurred from the job specs, use all of that information to identify the gaps, the opportunities, their strengths, and then I put this article together.

Gregorio Uglioni 5:59
Thank you very much. It’s really extremely interesting and, and at the end, you are really going through the customer experience process. It’s a journey that you start from an end. And then you go through each step, and you explained perfectly all other important steps to go through, and also testing that it’s the case that you create it already with with the company, it’s extremely important. Could you please elaborate a bit more what is in this article?

Mandisa Makubalo 6:27
So what’s in the article, I talk about the four, four tips that you need to consider before you set up your business unit. And then I’ll give five practical steps into designing it’s quite simple, practical, and I’m sure that when most business leaders look at it, it will be easy for them to understand what is contained. But it’s, it was really trying to make it as simple as possible, you know, and be and bring that practicality into the document. So I start off by talking about what are the things that you need to understand before setting up a team. And then once you clearly understand those things, I believe that you are set up for now starting to design for value. And then I talk about the practical steps, five steps that will allow you to design for value, and to really prepare the organization for the future with the design of the team.

Gregorio Uglioni 7:17
Thank you very much. And now we are really curious, which are these fourth four tips.

Mandisa Makubalo 7:24
So the first one I talk about is being clear on the why. So as I was sitting in those conversations, I really got to say there was a disconnect in terms of the why there was no alignment across the table in terms of why are we setting up this team. On the one end of the spectrum, you have the operational team talking about a recruitment problem. And then you have the C level executives talking about a need to respond to a business problem. So already, there’s a clash in terms of how they perceive, you know, the design of this team. And then also, the second part is about are you able to plan because I say that planning is your friend. So I find that I found that because there was this pressure from an operational perspective, planning was completely neglected and the importance for planning, which from a C level executive, there’s a financial implication if you do not plan. So by you be able to plan as a business leader, you are really able to understand and articulate everything to do with your design. You know, it gives you a strategic roadmap. And it also allows you to connect what you’re going to do with the organization’s strategic goals and organizational priorities. But without that plan in place, you really cannot design for value, and you can’t expect someone to buy into something that doesn’t have a plan, you know, so that’s the second thing that you need to be aware of. And then thirdly, I spoke about being forward thinking, what I did find was that, because at the moment, we’ve just almost passed COVID-19. But still in COVID-19, there’s almost this knee jerk approach to designing, you know, we need to do this now, because everybody’s focusing on CX. So there’s no forward thinking within the leaders. But every organization has a five year plan, a three year plan, a 10 year plan, you know, from a vision perspective, and that’s how the C level things like, but at an operational perspective, the thinking is not aligned to that. So there’s no forward thinking with business lit with a big head of departments. And as a result, you end up finding that you get this bottleneck when he gets you with your C level. Because you can’t You’re not displaying that level of forward thinking, you know, how can you set up a team that’s going to set up the organization for success in the future? What does this team look like in the next 10 years to come? That kind of thinking was not that it was quite evident in the conversation, and then finally having a well documented plan. So I did not see that documented plan. All I could hear is the Need for setting up this business unit was in the heads of these business leaders. And it’s easy to have a plan in your head. But for you to really get someone to put money on it, there needs to be a well documented plan. So those are the four things, it’s about being clear on the why. Secondly, planning is your friend. Thirdly, being forward thinking as a business leader. And then the last one is about really having that plan documented, because when you document the plan, you are able to have the snapshot and a very visual representation of what it is that you’re going to do. And it’s easy to convey the message to your stakeholders when you have a well documented plan. Because unfortunately, that’s the reality. With C level executives, there’s plans and plans and documents and documents. So there’s no way you can get in the boardroom without that document, documented plan.

Gregorio Uglioni 10:51
Sure, I think these these four suggestions are really important. And trying to single from another angle. It’s not only about creating a CX team, it’s for each unit for each department and agendas for our business. This is what you really need. And often I see a lot of startups failing, because they don’t have to plan their idea. But they don’t have a plan. By when do we need to have done that by When do we want to? In which point in time we decide, yes, we continue or no, we stop. And this is extremely important. The other thing that you mentioned already, I think three times it’s three words that I think are extremely important. And therefore I would like to, to ask you for a definition and for your explanation, design for value. What What do you mean exactly using these words?

Mandisa Makubalo 11:46
So design for valid really looks at the value from an organization perspective, and design and value from a customer perspective. So there needs to be value for the customer and value for the organization. The organization’s looks at things like ROI, what’s the return on investment? What’s the financial implication of us, you know, making this investment because there’s cost associated with setting up a business unit? So from a from a value perspective, what value are we getting out of this as an organization? And how do we tie that to our financial metrics? And our bottom line is an organization from a customer’s perspective, what value do they derive, as even if they’re not there to see that there was a team being set up? But what value are promising customers through this? And how can we quantify that value from a customer perspective, that kind of figures talk about financial acumen, you know, that kind of financial acumen will allow you to be able to demonstrate the value for the organization, then from a customer perspective, what value are they going to derive from this business unit. And that’s the two sets of values I talk about. And I think and also the employee value as well. And this would be value for the employees. So it’s like a quadrant where it’s the customer, the organization, and the customer, the organization. And then also, the third one would be the employees, those that support what I’m talking about for value.

Gregorio Uglioni 13:12
And I think this is something that I really like. And therefore I asked you because I had a discussion with Maxie Schmidt from Forrester, it was value for customers. And she she’s really stating in one discussion, that you need to really create a win win situation in the case that you are saying, I cannot, as a business, maximize my value or what I get out, because then the older side is losing. And if customers don’t get value out of it, then they are not coming back to you. And therefore it’s the way in the in the triangle that you’re mentioning, win win win situation, for customer for the business, and for the employees and is extremely important. And this requires a mindset switch. Because often we I’m seeing companies that are trying to maximize their short term profit, and losing customer and therefore I really like what you said, thank you very much, Mandisa.

Mandisa Makubalo 14:09
And if I can just add, Greg, I mean, it might sound like simple tips that I’m sharing. But the reality is that those tips are being applied. And that’s why we’re having these conversations, we’re really just going back to basics, because the basics have been neglected, you know, because of so many things that are happening, and we justify neglecting the basic by so many other things. So as much as it’s, it sounds simple, but the reality is that it’s not happening. And we need to go back to the drawing board.

Gregorio Uglioni 14:38
What what you are saying is extremely important. A lot of speaker people speak about CX, but no, not really. Everybody is doing CX in the right way. And therefore I think what you’re sharing it’s great after this interesting five suggest for four suggestions. Now we spoke about five steps queued up He’s elaborate on some a bit on these steps.

Mandisa Makubalo 15:03
So the five step is really forcing the CX business leader, to for once take off your CX cap, because we think customer personas with the empathy within customer journey maps within frameworks, but not saying that as a CX business leader, be really saying that it’s time for you to put it for sale except on the side, and realize that you can’t build in isolation of an ecosystem that you are operating in. So the five steps, we start by Luke about saying that you need to set up business unit goals and objectives for the for the for the team that you are building. And that needs for you, as a business leader, to start saying that, what is the company’s current status? What is the organizational vision, you know, what are the priorities for the organization? And then once you have a very clear understanding of all of that, you then look at how can you explore solutions from having an understanding the company status, the priorities of the organization, and understanding the values of the organization, then how can you start developing exploiting solutions that can be articulated into goals and objective, because there needs to build that connection to the bigger goals, you can’t build in isolation of that every organization has strategic corporate strategic goals, you know, they have the company vision priorities as an organization. And then you have all of these functional strategies. And customers experience is a function of strategy that exists in an ecosystem of other strategies. You know, it’s not the organizational strategy. So when you start building the goals and vision and the end, and the goals and objectives for the, for the department, you need to show an understanding and respect of those. Because immediately you start then being able to speak, the way the budget approvers speak, you know, you’re able to speak from their space, and not from a CX perspective, but it’s been from an organizational level, you are showing a very high level way of thinking, you know, you are highly respected for thinking in that manner. You know, that’s how leaders think, like, you don’t think at an operational level, but it needs to start at that level, and then you narrow it down. So once you’ve done that, then you start then building the set of goals and objectives that are really fully aligned to the organization’s corporate strategy. And that’s very important. So once you’ve done that, and you’ve built the set of goals and objectives, then you start defining the business unit strategy. And it’s really saying, How are we going to go about achieving those goals and objectives. And that strategy will inform that. But there needs to be this connectedness. You know, the reason why most teams would seem like they’re failing, there’s no connectedness, you know, everything is built in silos, there’s no connection from from the top to the bottom. So once you then started, once you’ve built the you’ve got, let’s say, now you’ve got the goals, and you’ve got the objectives. And then you go into a process of saying, now we’re going to build a strategy for this business unit. And you need to always keep in mind that you are developing a business unit that is intended to solve a business challenge. That is the bottom line, what is that? Always go back, never lose sight of that. If you have to keep that up in your office somewhere, then by all means, do that. But there’s always going to be that, how is my decision that I’m making today, allowing me to support the organization in achieving its goals, you know, and then you start then developing, you know, those actions that needs to happen. But it’s quite important that a strategy must be in place. And the strange thing, Greg, is that we as CX professionals are telling our customers to do this, but we’re not doing it. That’s what I’ve found, you know, we’re so good at saying, oh, a CX strategy, oh, goals and objectives. But when we need to do this, as a business leader in a corporate, it’s not happening. And yet we’re advocating for this. So that’s quite important. And then once you’ve once you’ve pulled your strategy, then you go about preparing a business case. And this is why I’m saying that it is now challenging you to think outside of CX, you know, to think as a business leader. So you build a business case, the business case is one of the strongest communication tools that you are going to use as a business leader, in communicating with a budget approvals and it needs to have all the elements that needs to be cited by your business approved by your budget approvers. They’re looking at the financial implication of setting up the team, you know, what’s the financial implication on the revenue, potential and understanding of all the potential costs and overheads of setting up that team? You need to show an understanding of the business processes that would come with your team. You need to look at the technology requirements that are going to come with that team. You need to look at then, you know the policies, you need to look at everything to do with that business unit, you’re not only looking at, you know, the customer personas and the maps, those things will happen, let’s byproducts. But it’s important to so what are the critical elements that are needed to be fulfilled for that, to come to love, and that you communicate to the business case, what are always what I’ve suggested to the previous organization is that you cannot build that business case, in isolation of other stakeholders. In the process of building that business case, you need to map out the critical stakeholders that you are going to need to engage. And one of the key stakeholders would be engaging with your CFO, because they look at the numbers, they manage the budget, you engage with your human capital, you know, Chief of human capital, because they understand the science behind bringing a human capital on board. You know, you don’t have that information. And it requires a level of maturity and saying that, what do I know? And what do I not know? You know, but mobilizing all of those skill sets together, and stakeholders will really, really set you up for success. But you cannot be in a space where you think that you know, everything, you can engage with the chief information officer as well, which will support you from a technology perspective, you look at business analysts, those people are very good in terms of developing processes, you need to bring all of those stakeholders together, engage them, as you build your business case, you know, you might have financial records, but those numbers might be outdated. So for you to get really those financial metrics, and the numbers, you can get them from your CFO, you know, they’re already sitting in that space. But if you if you go into, you know, your C level executives with that kind of thinking, you know, and I can clearly see that, you’ve thought of everything there is to think about, you know, that sets you up for success, it makes it easy as well. And you really don’t have to go in there as a one man Island, you can say can we can present, disburse gets together, you know, there’s nothing wrong with that you can take one strong person, so you really leveraging the authority the person has, and they can go with you as a team, which will then help you overcome those budget battles. And then the one, the next point is about communicating the person’s case, our say that before you actually go and communicate the business case to the budget approvers communicated with your stakeholders, once it’s done, because it’s easy for one to take their own homework, you know, it’s easy to say I’ve done everything. But you could so easily miss so many things by being that naive. And I would say maybe image or so communicate that business case with the relevant stakeholders that you’ve engaged throughout the process, you will find, don’t rush to go and submit that, you know, you will find that somebody from human capital will have identified something, then come back and say, We need to change that, you know, there might be a flaw with the numbers. And the CFO might say, we need to change that, you know, but you need to communicate that, as if you are now engaging with your stakeholders, set up time with those individuals and say, Can I share the business case with you, and I thank you for helping me out and putting this together. Now, before I go and submit a one I presented to you, please be very objective in your feedback. You don’t have to say things to make me feel good. But really just I want to communicate this with you. And then you communicate that with the stakeholders. And then finally, it’s about really converting that business case into technical plans. Because a business case on its own is not going to do anything. It needs to be translated into technical plans. There are you looking at resource allocation, you’re looking at timelines, you’re attaching costs, looking at milestone for the project, you can even work with your project office, you know, as a CX leader, you might not have exposure into program management, and project management. So you know, get the support of a project office in saying, can we put this camp to you, I mean, obviously, they are used to presenting projects, to the C level executives. So they can help you understand how best to communicate your business case, to those people, because they already familiar with how information is presented to those, you know, those decision makers around the finances and the budget. So it’s just to summarize everything, it’s about really starting off with setting up the business unit goals and your objectives. And then you define a strategy in terms of how you’re going to achieve those. Once you’ve done that, you then prepare a business case, you know, and then again, the critical thing is about engaging the stakeholders. Don’t make the mistake of doing that in isolation of this massive ecosystem because there’s so much collective wisdom that sits in the ecosystem. And also you need to tap into that. And then about communicating the business case. And then finally converting that into tactical plans. You know, then you can present that information to your budget approvers. Because that’s really how they speak. And when you communicate that it doesn’t have to be a text intensive, you can use a visual representation to communicate that, you know, at a very high level. But really, that’s how they speak. You know, because the first question they’re going to ask you, so how is this going to help us achieve our strategic goals? What is what what is our strategic goal, what is our priority for the next two years, if you’re able to say, the priority for the next year is to increase market share by 10%? Perhaps. And that is how we connect in this to allow the organization to achieve and contribute towards the achievement of that goal. You already ticked off one, you know, no, one area of your maybe you’ve already won one battle, out of the whole list of battles that you might be potentially dealing with.

Gregorio Uglioni 25:52
It’s really great, but because what you are understanding your what you’re saying, it’s, it’s incredible, because you’re showing in an extremely simple and understandable way, the steps that everybody needs to go through. And it’s not only customer experiences for everything, I allow myself to say, it’s new, it’s not new. But as you said, it’s something that we forget, and people are forgetting. And adding is opportunity to make one step back and reflect what I need to do. And it’s to my goals, I defined my strategy, I defined my business case. And then I did my own work. But now I need to support the phone, the community, the company, and therefore I need to communicate it. And then when I communicated that, I said, I’m going to do that, I need to deliver that. And that. And therefore I think this is this is really outstanding. It’s something like a masterplan. because it’s these are the most important step. And if you get one, then you will not be successful.

Mandisa Makubalo 26:54
And I can if I can just also add grid. I mean, if you look at what I’ve said to you now around the five steps, at no point in time, did I talk about the positions? Okay, chief experience officer at no point in time, you know, that’s, that’s the last That’s the least of your worries. You know, and and what I have found is that when I was sitting in those conversations and listening to all of these frustrated business leaders, it’s they’re really talking about positions, they already know what roles must be in place, they’ve got the titles already know. And there’s almost this blanket approach in terms of role, roles, role definitions, and positions. And there can’t be a blanket approach, because in the African context, it’s different to the western side. So you can’t apply a blanket approach in terms of positions. But that’s the least of your worries. The first thing that you need to be clear about is, how am i How is what I’m doing going to solve a business problem? And am I aware of that business problem? And how do I tie my actions to that business problem continuously, you know, then you can start really mapping out the positions, and giving them fancy titles and all of that. But even when you once you have gone through this process, you are able to come up with contextualized job specifications. Because all of that is informed by this very detailed and thorough process that you have gone through. So you don’t have to take a job spec that’s already in the market. And say, from a benchmarking perspective, I’m going to use this job spec, but you really contextualize the job specifications to your organization, because you have gone through this very thorough process.

Gregorio Uglioni 28:42
Thank you very much. It totally makes sense. And it’s really outstanding, I would have 2000 questions, but I am looking at on the timing and therefore we are coming to an end. And one question that I want to ask is, let’s close our eyes and we are in 10 years time from now, what we are speaking about in class in the customer experience world,

Mandisa Makubalo 29:06
what are we what should we be expected the customer experience world

Gregorio Uglioni 29:10
what we are going to discuss about

Mandisa Makubalo 29:14
the next 10 years, in 10 years, in 10 years time … I can tell you what we’re not going to be discussing in the next 10 years. We’re not talking about Journeys maps and personas, we’re not gonna be talking about those things. Think there’s going to be you know, these kind of conversations taking place where there’s a high realization that CX is not the be-all and end-all, not the only solution for an organization. But it’s really part of this ecosystem. And we are going to be challenged as CX professionals, if we don’t really invest in our knowledge of business. You know, you’re gonna find that you disappear in the industry, if you don’t really invest in skilling up in understanding all of these things, and not only limited your knowledge of cx to the technicalities and the science of CX, but bring everything holistically, you know, and being able to communicate that, well, I think you’re going to find lots and lots of that. And that might even setup 64 tests and being this recognised qualification, if you will really start thinking and applying such principles and level of thinking,

Gregorio Uglioni 30:36
I really liked your answer. Because we are living like in a bubble, we are always speaking about CX, CX, CX. But businesses have a lot, a lot of different problems, a lot of different things they need to manage. Totally makes sense. Thank you very much. We are calling really now in the last five minutes of this game, and I still have three questions. First one, is there a book that you would like to suggest to the audience because it helped you during your career or during your life?

Mandisa Makubalo 31:06
So I’ve, I’ve suggested the customer experience 3, the one that we took part too… 1, 2, and 3. And final I tell you why I say that. So I’ve had a lot of messages on LinkedIn, from aspiring CX Professionals, and young people that want to go into CX, but don’t know where to start and what to read. So I’m saying that if you read a book that’s authored by one person, you are limited to that person’s perspective. And you go into the industry and start being a mini Mandisa, because all you know, is how Mandisa thinks. But if you look at the way the book is designed, you have 27 different perspectives, you are being set up to operate at a global level. Because there’s all of these different perspectives, you know, it makes you rich, in terms of your knowledge, because you can hear from all these different people. So I’ve always been recommending that book, not because I’m proud of the book. But I just feel that it’s important, we can’t be naive in thinking that, you know, people shouldn’t be learning from across the globe, we need to learn from one another. So as the person who’s fairly new, very objective, hungry to learn, excited, grab the book and read those 27 chapters. And it’s practical chapter. Sometimes the books are quite theoretical, it’s difficult to connect it to real life situation. So the book is quite practical in nature, which means that you get ready to step into real life business cases.

Gregorio Uglioni 32:35
Thank you very much. It’s, I can only suggest and support your suggestion, because I was also part of this. And we can say that openly, we are not earning money. It’s there because to share our knowledge. And I think that’s, that’s what I really like is the different view on the same topic. Everybody cooks with water, but we have a lot plenty of opportunities. Yes. The second last question is, we learned a lot today. But I think you still have a lot to share. If somebody would like to contact you what’s the best way?

Mandisa Makubalo 33:11
Best way would be to reach out to me on LinkedIn, on my LinkedIn page, Mandisa Makubalo You can also send a Contact Us message through the company website, which is https://theunlimitedco.com/. You can also do that through the Contact Us section of the page. And yes, so the best thing will be I’m very, very active on LinkedIn. So LinkedIn is the first place to

Gregorio Uglioni 33:37
go. Perfect. And I suggest only to the audience to follow Mandisa, because she’s doing a really an outstanding job. And now the last question is Mandisa’s golden nugget, it’s something that we discussed or something new, that you would like to leave to the audience.

Mandisa Makubalo 33:57
So the one thing I would love to live with the audience is, dare to be different challenge status quo, bring your bring yourself into this thing that bring your wisdom, your experiences, your education, bring all of that but just dare to be different. And yeah, and I mean, we’re not in competition, really. That’s about perpetuating the CX game. And if you keep that in mind, you will really I mean, that way of thinking has opened up so many doors for me, because for me, it’s really about CX. It’s not about who’s there for 20 years, was get the accolades. It’s just about really perpetuating the game of CX.

Gregorio Uglioni 34:42
Thank you very much. It was an outstanding answer. And the only thing that I want to say thank you very much Mandisa. It was a great pleasure to have you on the sixth call.

Mandisa Makubalo 34:53
Thank you, Greg. I truly enjoyed this thing and I look forward to listening to the recording once it’s published.

Gregorio Uglioni 35:00
I’m going to do that. Thank you very much and also to the audience. I hope that you enjoyed this discussion as much as I did. And if you have any feedback or you want to contact Mandisa, feel free to contact us because we really like getting feedback and start the discussion about customer experience.

If you enjoyed this episode, please share the word of mouth, subscribe it, share it until the next episode. Please don’t forget, we are not in a b2b or b2c business. We are in a human to human environment. Thank you

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