The CX Centric Maturity Assessment with Jonathan Daniels – E91

Episode released on: 19. September 2022

The CX Centric Maturity Assessment with Jonathan Daniels Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper

The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Jonathan Daniels

LinkedIn Headline: Leading Customer Centric Transformations.


  • 00:00 Game Start
  • 00:36 Jonathan’s introduction
  • 03:14 Jonathan’s value
  • 04:45 Where did where did the idea of a CX Centric Maturity Assessment come from?
  • 08:34 How is it structured?
  • 11:26 why it’s important to understand where we are (the as-is situation)?
  • 16:51 Is it possible to excel in some of these 8 categories? Or is it better to improve all at the same time?
  • 18:32 The future of CX
  • 20:43 Book Suggestion
  • 22:09 Contact details
  • 23:49 Jonathan’s Golden Nugget

Jonathan’s Contact Details:

His book suggestion:

Jonathan’s Golden Nuggets:

  • Understand and appreciate the importance of culture in the workplace. Understanding how the mindset and the approach of your employees and the collective mindset impact the outputs for your organization.
  • So the products, the services, the interactions that your team has with the customers with the wider environment as well. Culture is crucial. And that’s why we want to focus on that.
  • my golden nugget is not to underestimate the importance and power of culture. And also, obviously try to be intentional about designing that culture, and maintaining that culture.

“Understand and appreciate the importance of culture in the workplace. Understanding how the mindset and the approach of your employees and the collective mindset impact the outputs for your organization.” @cxcentricglobal on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast

my golden nugget is not to underestimate the importance and power of culture. And also, obviously try to be intentional about designing that culture, and maintaining that culture. @cxcentricglobal on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast

#customerexperience #leadership #cxgoalkeeper #cxtransformation #podcast


Gregorio Uglioni 0:00
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the CX goalkeeper podcast. Your host, Gregorio Uglioni. Will have small discussion with experts, thought leaders and friends on customer experience, transformation, innovation and leadership. I hope you will enjoy the next episode,

Ladies and gentlemen. Today, it’s really a big, big pleasure because as Jonathan Daniels is back on the CX goalkeeper podcast. Hi, Jonathan, how are you?

Jonathan Daniels 0:32
Good. Thank you for the invite. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Gregorio Uglioni 0:36
I am super happy, you where my guests number one, it means the first person on the CX goalkeeper podcast. And now after 90 episodes, I have really big pleasure to have you back. And we are going to speak about something really interesting is the customer experience centric maturity assessment that we will share later. I think that’s a great opportunity for everybody to join everybody to participate. Jonathan will share all the information about that. But before we start speaking about this maturity, maturity assessment, let’s introduce let’s do an introduction. Jonathan, could you please introduce yourself?

Jonathan Daniels 1:16
Yeah, no problem. First of all, Gregorio Well done, congratulations for this podcast. Because, yeah, I came on at the start, and you know, you would just kick kicking off, now you’re 90 episodes in, it’s a real achievement. So keep it up, keep going. Don’t stop. I’m, I’m Jonathan Daniels. For those who don’t know me. I’m originally from the UK, I live in Belgium. Now, the author of the customer experience playbook. I run CX centric. So we have a global community, this eccentric community of professionals who are interested in customer experience. And in customer success, and customer centricity, I should say, also, we’ve got some frameworks, which are members, like, basically get involved with and give us feedback on and we share that information with others in the community. We also run global webinars. So basically just allows us to showcase any good examples of hat organizations who’ve really gone forward and done some something exceptional in terms of customer experience management, also the co founder of CX Brussels, and also seeks to buy. So these are two local communities, which we’ve set up in these specific regions to really support organizations and professionals in these regions. Yeah, that’s the main stuff. I play guitar from a musical family background in, in project management, especially technology projects, and I’ve managed a lot of business transformations as well. So that’s my, my summary. There we go.

Gregorio Uglioni 3:14
Thank you very much, Jonathan. And I think the summary is while you are sleeping, usually, and if not, you’re speaking and doing customer experience. Jokes aside, I think I would like really to learn a bit more about you. And I had the great pleasure to speak with you several times, and therefore I know you’re a bit but the audience perhaps not. And therefore, which values drive you live?

Jonathan Daniels 3:40
Well, family first, so make sure the family is good, make sure they’re happy, said I should say as well. So that’s the first thing, I spend a lot of time with them, with the kids as well. And then the other thing about me it’s more about improvement. So looking at what’s happening in the world today, looking at the structures, some of the processes or some of the beliefs, and just taking the time to reflect and rethink them, basically. So that’s another thing that we tried to do here at sixth century. The other thing is just being creative, and having a sense of style. So we’re always trying to create new things, new things for our customers, approach problems in you know, from a different angle, etc. That’s the sort of those are the main sort of things. The last thing is obviously, respect, you know, having respect for others, having respect for yourself, this is something really important to me as well.

Gregorio Uglioni 4:45
Perfect. Thank you very much. And I think cute things that you mentioned to values that you mentioned creativity, and, and the respect are also part of what you did because you created something new, that it’s real A stylish, it’s a great style. It’s simple to fill in. It’s understandable and will help companies to grow and to go on to the journey of transformation in direction customer centricity. But if I have you I’m dots need to explain that you are going to do that. You created brilliant customer experience assessment. Where did where did the idea come from? .

Jonathan Daniels 5:25
So for me, customers is a customer centricity assessment. And for me, customer centricity is very important. And what I’ve noticed is the way we articulate about customer experience management and customer centricity. Sometimes it can be a bit, let’s say, Wofully, it’s not very clear. It’s all year, we need to focus on the customer experience, we need to make the customer happy. Okay. What does that mean, in real terms for my organization today? Yeah, so I wanted to articulate customer centricity in a smart way, you know, specific, measurable, achievable, etc. And that was the whole premise behind the customer centricity model, which we created. And then on top of that, so we created this model last year, actually, and there’s quite a few professionals around 20 professionals from around the world, but well respected professionals who came in review, including yourself bogoria, you’ve checked it as well. And we put together this this assessment. And then the other day, I was speaking to Bruce Temkin, Bruce Temkin is a guy who found in the cxpa actually is playing a key role in in what we do as the the listeners will probably no. And he said to me, Jonathan, this assessment that you have, because I was offering this assessment privately to organizations, I’ve taken like a few banks through it, a few insurance companies through it, they’ve got good results, very good results, a lot of good feedback, he said, Look, you’ve got to get this out to the masses, actually. So I’ve created a smaller version of that assessment. And the idea behind that is that we want to get as many organizations to fill it in as possible. So we can get benchmark data, benchmark data for specific sectors. So we can say, in terms of leadership, banking, they place higher than tourism, for instance, in terms of employee experience, retail, are suffering, you know, we want to be able to have benchmarks for specific sectors, and then also want to be comparing because that’s the other thing with a CX centric communities, a global community, we want to be comparing results, country by country as well, which, which areas of the world are better at, you know, which ones appear more customer centric? Based on this study? Which ones have challenges in specific areas? Can we find any trends here? So we’re really, really like passionate about this, we want to get this information. And once we get it, I think it’s going to be, it’s going to open up a lot of interesting discussion points that we can have as a community. So I hope to come back and say, you know, these are the results. This is what is shown, Gregorio, these are the points that we need to work on as a community. So that’s the premise behind what we’re doing today.

Gregorio Uglioni 8:34
Then it means I need to invite you for the next session when you have to resolve so that we can discuss them. But before discussing the result. I want to end it’s really a smart assessment, because you’re touching and covering and several topics. How is it structured?

Jonathan Daniels 8:53
So it’s structured around the cx centric customer centricity model. Yeah, so this model has eight dimensions. So for each of these eight dimensions, we have three sub dimensions, basically. So those add up to a lot of dimensions, 24 dimensions in total. But what we’ve done is we’ve taken just the key questions, the most important ones that really give a clear indication of your level of customer centricity and focused on those. And we’ve had so many, like, so many, so much feedback. That’s been very interesting. So organizations have come back and said, Oh, some might just do something basic, like Oh, nice set of questions. We’ll also get some feedback like refreshing, thought provoking. Different Yeah, so the thing with here is, we are, if you think about we’re talking about culture here, customer centricity, the way we work, and what we’re doing is we’re moving Moving away from traditional models like Taylor’s time and motion, which was about, Okay, how many hours is this person done that? Now we’re focused on something else, because we need to have a different way of, of working, working, or even call it collaborating, or producing together. And that’s the whole premise behind this, it’s really to, to investigate what’s actually happening now in these organizations isn’t working, isn’t working? How can we improve? So yeah, it will take about in total, it takes between five and 10 minutes to complete this assessment. And once you’ve completed it, within a few days, we’ll send back your maturity score for each of the eight dimensions. And also, we’ll send you a few links as well to, you know, stuff related to to to the results that you’ve provided. And then further on down the line, once we’ve got all the numbers, so probably, the more like the beginning of October, once this, this input sort of section of the project is finished, then we’ll be able to send you the full report with the key graphs. So you can look through it and you can see where your organization is, compared with the others, basically,

Gregorio Uglioni 11:26
we’re very much looking forward to it because I completed the ultimate assessment, and therefore I’m going to get all this information for the audience, ladies and gentlemen, it’s a free assessment that you can take until the end of September, you will find all the links in the show notes in the comments of these videos. And please, please participate, because we are going to help the customer experience community to grow to identify what we need to do, where we need to act. And it will be extremely interesting to share all these results. And and also every having the opportunity to compare throughout the different industry towards the count the counters and so on. Jonathan already mentioned in previous casual, several counters are participating feedback is coming from everywhere. And therefore please, please join, the best thing that you can do now is pause this podcast, go to the link, fill in this this assessment. And and then come back and listen. What about the continuation of this discussion? I think let’s let’s take this this example or our example. You’ll fill in the assessment. And now you have an idea of the s ee situation, why it’s important to understand where we are?

Jonathan Daniels 12:48
Well, I think it’s so important to know where we are. The reason is, it’s often a wake up call for organizations. In fact, it’s often a new perspective, a new vision, you know, because so many organizations are looking at things from the inside out perspective, they focus on their business results, they’re not focusing on what the customer is saying. They’re not focused on the customer needs. They’re just looking at their competitors. Just me so many people have said, this is refreshing, this is different. This is a new perspective. So understanding where you are is often a wake up call, because you’re going to have to think about things that you probably haven’t thought of before. But as soon as you start thinking about it, you will then understand how important it is, is very clear some of these, some of these dimensions that we have. And we talked about leadership, leaders being able to empower their, their employees, rather than, you know, have this command and control. You know, we know that’s important. Sometimes we don’t think about that sort of things enough. Now we don’t look at look at the stuff in our organization and dress it you know, things like the employee experience, things like looking at how we can drive our organization to have people who are passionate about the about what we do passionate about the impact that we have on our customers, but also the wider society like this sort of thing. Before it was never even discussed. It was hardly discussed. Now this stuff is very important is crucial in this day and age. Yeah, even from a point of being able to retain your customers and also retaining your employees, which is, you know, equally as important and equally difficult in this day and age. So it’s always important to know where you are as an organization.

Gregorio Uglioni 14:53
I think I love what you’re saying and basically adding my view working in corporates. It’s really good for you Alfa worldwide known customer experience expert like Jonathan, telling you where you are good and where you are less good where you need to improve, it really helps you and support you, for example, if you are a customer experience professional in your company, to spread the word of mouth to set the right priorities, and to tell within your company that perhaps not everything is perfect, but there are ways to to improve. And I think this external view, as you said, outside in the consultant, really expert in this area, telling you where you are good and where you need to improve, it will really help. And I think also, yes, please.

Jonathan Daniels 15:42
I was gonna say, Yeah, I mean, look, at CX centric, we’ve got a lot of experience delivering customer centric transformations. But at the same time, we do work with partners around the world. So we have a database of partners. So I have to say that, you know, for instance, right now, Rodrigo, he’s in South South America, which translated the, this assessment into Spanish as well. And, you know, a lot of the times he might be servicing some of the the Spanish or the clients from from South America. And we have, we have partners around the world. So it’s not like us as the organization where we are just trying to collect leads, etc. We work with partners, with an international group of partners, and for others, for those who are interested in growing their businesses. From a customer experience perspective, feel free to get in touch with us if you’d like to join the partner ecosystem. So I just wanted to add that in.

Gregorio Uglioni 16:51
That’s great. And I think that’s, that’s a great opportunity. Because if you’re collaborating, we can grow customer experience, quicker, better. And we can learn from from each other. And I think also related to learning from each other. And what’s what’s your view? Is it possible to excel in some of these areas, 8 categories that you that you mentioned? Or is it better to improve all together?

Jonathan Daniels 17:17
I think it’s a good question. And I think it depends on the business. It depends on what outcomes you are aiming for. Yeah. And also, I would say that, it just depends on the specific industry and the situation as well, and the actual results. And that’s why it’s always good to work with one of our partners. So they can help you interpret the results, and help you to create a strategy and a roadmap that’s really going to work in terms of is it better to focus on one area or focus on the other on all of them together? I think it’s always best to focus on the areas, which are most likely to impact the employee experience and the customer experience. So you focus on the areas with the biggest impacts. So you’re going to have to work that out, which has the biggest impact. And you’re gonna have to get that justify why do you think this would have the biggest impact as well? So there’s a bit of work to do there. But yeah, that’s my thing. Don’t try and do everything focused on the biggest impact areas.

Gregorio Uglioni 18:32
Thank you very much. I think what you’re saying it totally makes sense. And now I’m 100% sure we convinced everybody, every listener to participate to the free CX centric maturity assessment. Please do that by the surface of September, because it’s free. And then you can get all this information, all these reports that Jonathan mentioned. But before we finish this game, I still have some questions. One question that I always ask. Now we close our eyes, we did all this assessment. And we are in 10 years time from now, what we are discussing about in the customer experience world.

Jonathan Daniels 19:11
This is a good question, I think. 10 years from now, what we’re going to see is proactive management of customer communities. I think that is the way forward, what’s gonna happen is we’re gonna have communities and these might be your customers, or they might be prospective customers. Or they might be just, you know, by interest interested in something, a subject that’s related to your product or service. And basically, this is going to be the driving force for many organizations. Because if you invest in these communities where customers are because it’s often now online, you can really get close to You know, you’ve got communities. In fact, you have, like an ongoing discussion. If you if you take the keyword for your business for like, for instance, high fashion or something, you can literally type that keyword into Twitter. And you’ll see that there’s an ongoing discussion right now, regarding topics related to your business. So how did you get into that conversation? How do you tap in? How do you make sure you understand and connect with those potential customers for your business? For me, proactive management of customer communities is going to be crucial over the next 10 years. And even beyond that. So that’s my wisdom there for you. Gregorio.

Gregorio Uglioni 20:43
I love it. Because I think the community topic it’s always popping up. Now we are reading and referring to our can expand it referring to the feedback from people, we don’t know, if we’re looking product in Amazon, if you’re looking in another website, we don’t know the people, but we read what they are saying. And then we just we take our decision based on that. Think about the opportunity of reading reviews of people you trust. And then if you buy the product or the service, it will be a complete change in the way we are thinking. I really love what you said, we are now coming in the last three minutes of the game. And I still have three questions. The first one, is there a book that you would like to suggest to the audience because it’s helped you in your in your career, or during your life?

Jonathan Daniels 21:35
Isn’t Gregoria I’m not being served to share, but I have to still plug in the customer experience playbook. I have to, I have to so I wrote that book in 2020. And the reason why I’m blogging is even last month, you know, someone messaged me, oh, this helped me, it’s got, you know, it’s got a framework in there that was useful to them. It’s still being used right now, actually. So check out the customer experience playbook, which is available on Amazon.

Gregorio Uglioni 22:09
It’s perfect. I think that that’s the best way. And I can recommend it because I read it, I like it. And I still remember the hour you explained and make it really simple. Some things that are not so simple to understand. And also with your overview, it really helps understand how to drive customer centric transformations. The second last question is your contact details. I think now we can split up the questions, your contact details and where we can find a your maturity assessment.

Jonathan Daniels 22:42
Yeah, so contact details you can get in touch, you know, CX dash sen That’s the website. You can also connect with me, Jonathan Daniels, on LinkedIn. CX centric, also, on Instagram, see CX centric global on Twitter. Also, lots of different ways of connecting. So feel free Look, everything that we do. It’s a work in progress. We’re learning as we go. And if you have if you see that customer centricity maturity assessment, and you take it, and you have feedback, get in touch, if you see the model, you think something is changing, or you want to challenge something, get in touch. If you see any of our other frameworks, we do have other frameworks. If you have a look at new, we see something and you want to get in touch about it, just get in touch because we are always trying to improve. We’re always happy to have conversations about what we’re doing. So feel free to just get in touch anytime.

Gregorio Uglioni 23:49
Thank you very much. And now we are coming to the last question is Jonathan, golden nugget. It’s something that we discussed, or something new that you would leave to the audience.

Jonathan Daniels 23:59
Yeah, I think Golden Nugget would be Yeah, this is a bit trickier. For me it probably the golden nugget is just to understand and appreciate the importance of culture in the workplace. Understanding the how the mindset and the approach of your employees and the collective mindset impacts the outputs for your organization. So the products, the services, the interactions that your team has with the customers with the wider environment as well. Culture is crucial is very important. And that’s why we want to focus on that. So yeah, just my golden nugget is not to underestimate The importance and power of culture. And also, obviously try to be intentional about designing that culture, and maintaining that culture. These are two things that are very important.

Gregorio Uglioni 25:14
And I think this is the best way to conclude this discussion. Thank you very much, Jonathan, for your great insights and for sharing for free, your seek centric maturity assessment. It was a great a great pleasure to have you on the CX goalkeeper podcast. Thank you very much.

Jonathan Daniels 25:30
Thank you, your pleasures, all mine.

Gregorio Uglioni 25:34
and also to the audience. I hope that you enjoyed this discussion as much as I did. And please let us know your view. Jonathan shared already all the contact details below. Please feel free to contact him or to contact me. Thank you very much. Have a nice day. Thank you.

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with word of mouth. Subscribe it, share it until the next episode. Please don’t forget, we are not in a b2b or b2c business. We are in a human to human environment. Thank you.

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