The intersection between CX and EX with Bill Staikos – E98

Episode released on: 31. October 2022

The intersection between CX and EX with Bill Staikos Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper

The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Bill Staikos

LinkedIn Headline: 

Highlights:

  • 00:00 Game Start
  • 00:33 Bill’s introduction
  • 03:51 Bill’s value
  • 06:15 What is the intersection between Customer Experience and Employee Experience?
  • 09:21 Why is this intersection getting more and more important?
  • 14:05 Experience design, insights & Culture
  • 16:11 How to leverage insights to improve this intersection
  • 20:37 what are the key elements on experience design?
  • 23:59 what are the most important points to nurture a positive genuine culture?
  • 27:39 Some examples
  • 29:23 The future of CX
  • 32:46 Book suggestion
  • 34:05 Contact Details
  • 34:42 Bill’s Golden Nugget

and much more

Bill’s Contact Details:

His book suggestion:

  • The Experience Economy by J. Pine and J. Gillmore
  • The Grid by Matt Watkinson
  • The Wallet Allocation Rule by Luke Williams

Bill’s Golden Nuggets:

  • Think beyond the survey. Too many organizations are in these “survey break fix” kind of mentality. And think about what other data or sources or customer signals you can access to really round out your understanding of the customers. For me, that is the single biggest thing that is holding back our discipline today. And I don’t think the survey will ever go away, who knows, in 20 years, maybe it will be in 30. To me, this very survey driven mentality is really holding our discipline back. So start exploring, where you have other signals from your customers how to bring that data together, and work with the teams internally to be able to do that, partner with them.

This survey driven mentality is holding CX back. Start exploring, where you have other signals from your customers how to bring that data together. Work with the teams internally to be able to do that @becustomerled1
on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast @medallia

#customerexperience #leadership #cxgoalkeeper #cxtransformation #podcast

Transcription:

Gregorio Uglioni 0:00
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the CX goalkeeper podcast. Your host, Gregorio Uglioni, will have small discussions with experts, thought leaders, and friends on customer experience, transformation, innovation and leadership. I hope you will enjoy the next episode.

Ladies and gentleman tonight, it’s really a big pleasure because I have Bill Staikos together with me. Hi, Bill, how are you?

Bill Staikos 0:27
Greg, It’s so wonderful to be here. I truly appreciate the invite to be on your podcast. Thank you so much.

Gregorio Uglioni 0:33
Thank you very much. For me, it’s a big pleasure. And now that you told me that you worked also in Switzerland, at a big bank and not far away from where I’m living, even more keen to discuss with you and open that you are coming back to Switzerland to have a sausage together and probably also beer at a nice evening in summer. But before we start dreaming, or all the audience starts dreaming about dinner and traveling. Let’s go to the topic, we are speaking about customer experience. And today, it’s really the intersection of customer experience and employee experience. Before we deep dive into this topic, I am always asking my guests to introduce themselves and therefore also for you, could you please introduce yourself?

Bill Staikos 1:18
Sure. So thank you for that opportunity, Greg. So I have been in the customer, I’ve been working for 25 plus years, always in financial services. Or most I will say there’s a caveat to that. But But 20 or more of those years in customer and employee experience, working in teams being part of them, but also leading teams, many years and consulting most of those years working for very large financial organizations Credit Suisse, why I was in for three years in Zurich. Also JPMorgan Chase, Freddie Mac, most recently, and for the last 18 months or so, I’ve been working at a company called Medallia, which is the global leader in customer and employee experience. Management. We’re a SaaS based business. And we work with clients all over the world. And I do as part of my role to be able to get them to not only understand the capability and the importance of CX, but then how to kind of move through a maturity path as well.

Gregorio Uglioni 2:19
Thank you very much, Bill, I think you forgot something.

Bill Staikos 2:22
Oh, yeah. So I’m not like a really good at self promotion. So forgive me, Greg. I host a weekly podcast called BeCustomerLed. We have listeners in 105 countries. And our in our third season, it’s been more than an end of the reason why I don’t promote it that much as it actually is, is, is a great life and professional hack for me. I’ve probably learned more than than anybody who’s come on to the show. And, but I hope that our listeners are also learning. So it’s been it’s been a lot of fun.

Gregorio Uglioni 2:57
And the promotion is not stopping here, because you will find also the link in the show notes. We are not competitors, I really love your, your podcast, I love it. And I’m following it and therefore super happy that you are here and you’re sharing also your podcasts because at the end, it’s important that the audience get different views on the topics and get different influences and therefore everybody that is contributing to the customer experience community and what we are doing, I appreciate that. And I really appreciate also your job.

Bill Staikos 3:27
Yeah, look, the CX the CS community has always been one where everyone wants to help each other be better. I don’t, there are great podcasts that I listened to including yours that I learned from and I generate ideas from so you know, as long as you’re approaching it from a perspective of learning and growth, there’s no competition, no reason to.

Gregorio Uglioni 3:49
Thank you very much. And I’m not asking if it was the same setup in banking, the banking industry, we stopped here. I’m not asking this question. And we go to the next one. No joke aside, I think we want to learn a bit more about you, and therefore which values drive you in life.

Bill Staikos 4:10
Yeah, that’s a good question. For me. First and foremost, that service, you know, I grew up, told the story once or twice, but I my parents emigrated to the United States in the late 1960s. They were small business owners, specifically restaurants and diners. That’s what Greeks own. In the United States. It’s very cliche, but that’s what they did. And from a very, very young age service, and I observed my parents working, how they dealt with customers, how they dealt with employees, very much from a service mindset and service servant leadership perspective. And that is something that is just in my DNA. So right off the bat, you know, services as a value as a core value is very important to me. And part of the reason why I started the podcast, frankly, is because I wanted to help more people be better at their role. Isn’t our jobs. Number two, you know, for me, like, I don’t know, if this is a value, you can call us a value per se, but like, really being a learner, you know, when you work for doing this work for 20 years, you think you have all the answers. And then you meet folks like you who’ve done the work, the same work, but maybe some differently, you meet folks every week and talk to them, and you realize that you don’t have all the answers. So a little humility, and, and coming from a perspective of I can learn from this person, and what am I doing to grow is very important to me as well. And then finally, you know, I would say just work hard, you know, you know, do the things that you love, and do them super well. And dedicate time to really perfecting the things that you love to do. People say, Oh, you’ll just be good at it because you love it. I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Right? You know, Tiger Woods loves golf, he’s practices everyday still, I think, you know, practicing the things that you love, and you care about. And investing time in those things, I think is also really important, and something that I tried to visualize.

Gregorio Uglioni 6:15
And I think what you’re saying it’s totally makes sense. And I can refer also to my background, soccer players are training, let’s say 98% of the times, and they’re really playing the game only few hours a week, but they are practicing everyday because they need to get to the perfection and grooving Denson every time. And every also the best players are still training because they need to improve themselves. And therefore I can fully understand what what you were saying. Now without speaking about mathematics, because we are speaking about intersection of customer experience and employee experience. What is exactly this intersection.

Bill Staikos 6:59
So for me, it’s always about been about understanding the behaviors of your workforce, I don’t necessarily like to call it employee experience, frankly, because you’re gonna have consultants working at your company. So I really try I’ve the last year or so I’ve been really trying to focus more on using the term workforce. Workforce doesn’t flow as easily as employee experience, though. For me, it’s understanding the behaviors that drive the best experiences. And not only for customer facing staff, you know, your contact center agent, your banker, your retail store employee. For me, it’s also about, you know, the, the finance organization, the designers, the operations, folks who never see a customer. And if they exhibit behaviors, that show that they know they are accountable to the customer. And the work that they’re doing every day, they can tie the work that they’re doing to the customer impact. That is where that intersection starts to play. So being able to encapsulate some may call it culture or something, I really just like one of those behaviors that we want to coach train upskill our people on, because we know that the end result will be a better customer experience. And by the way, if you’re investing in your employees, and delivering on those behaviors, nurturing them, being a servant to them, giving them the appropriate tools and training to be successful every day, on behalf of the customer, whether you’re in the back office or the front office. I think you know, in your rewarding for for the right behaviors. From a culture perspective. I think that that kind of symbiotic relationship starts to turn into a little bit of a flywheel where happy employees deliver better experiences internally and externally. Happy customers buy more, right that can result hopefully, and sort of more benefits back to the employee or the workforce. And there’s just this great constant cycle that starts to occur and create an organization inside and out. And that’s, you know, that’s that magic that you want to be able to identify and be able to drive.

Gregorio Uglioni 9:21
I think what you’re saying it totally makes sense. The game started a few minutes ago, I asked only one question, but you are really touching the extreme extremely important topics to make it a bit more understandable also for the audience. I really like what you’re saying and you did also in other podcasts in order discussion was an example. And it was something like you can also improve and increase always on the customer experience for the for the front. As for people outside of the company, you have the perfect tools, the perfect app, but then you have on the other side your workforce using 1015 different system to serve the customers and struggling and perhaps customer gets quicker information than the employees. And therefore perhaps also we need to make really tangible for for for, for the audience, why is this intersection so important? And why is getting more and more important?

Bill Staikos 10:19
Look, I think that the the sort of the integration of EX and CX is a top five business imperative for the next 10 years. And, you know, when we all know what the benefits of a better employee experience, as we all seen quantitative measures, you know, in research on why a great customer experience is important, I think that research is going to start to come together more. And when you do that, to your examples, a great one, right? If I create the best, even omni channel experience, so as a customer, I can go from app to web to branch or retail location. All of that is seamless. It’s a wonderful journey throughout. But I get there and the retail employee is just very rude to me. You’ve wasted all that money, all that all that all that app, all the development from the website that now becomes technical debt. Right? Even though companies don’t see it that way, it becomes technical debt. And, you know, if you’re not giving your people the tools and the resources and the capabilities and the training, and lifting them up and understanding like the connection for them between the design principles that a design team is putting in place, and they are creating an app experience, and what does that mean, not only for the customer in the app, but then what does that mean for the customer through a journey? I think a lot of organizations are missing the book at a previous employer, one of the things that we started to do was, and we we did this for our sales of one sales group in particular, as we started to look at what behaviors they were exhibiting. So we were lucky enough to be looking at Microsoft, we had Microsoft Word or Microsoft company, we have access to Microsoft Workplace Analytics, most Microsoft companies have access to this data, it will tell you, if your employees are texting while they’re on a phone call, it will tell you if they have too many meetings with one person versus, you know, having one on ones with all their directs. Or it can give you information on how quickly they’ve ramped up their network inside the company and even outside. So we started to look at all this data and said, Okay, if we looked at this team, we just took one team, and we you know, we anonymized it, it wasn’t done at the individual level. But we look at the team level. And we looked at all the behaviors of his team. What what behaviors have a direct correlation or impact on how they’re engaging other employees across the firm? And then how are they engaging with the customer. And it was really profound in terms of very simplistic things, basic blocking and tackling type stuff that, you know, we then gave to that leader and said, we obviously can’t tell you exactly who, right because there was policy from an HR perspective, we couldn’t get down to the individual level, but for your team specifically encouraged these behaviors. And it was really just five. And you know, we ran a little pilot, they talked about in their team meetings, how are you approaching this? What are you doing, and we started to see a difference in the data. And ultimately, that, that led to just difference in data from a customer perspective as well. And, you know, that is really powerful, to be in very quantifiable to be able to show just by changing a few simple actions in someone’s day to day, how that results not only from a cultural perspective, but then also from a customer perspective, is really, really powerful stuff. And I think, you know, the technology is there to do it today. But a lot of organizations maybe are just not ready, or they’re yet to be able to bring the two together.

Gregorio Uglioni 14:06
I think you’re touching a lot of extremely important topics. One is experienced design, it’s insights, and it’s cultural. I’m using these three words, not because I find them out, but it’s also a frame of work that you’re often using relating. And the example that you share is exactly focusing on on this topic. You have this framework that you often explain, could you please quickly elaborate and that we can then go to it?

Bill Staikos 14:34
Sure. So and this goes back to actually to the my days in Zurich, you know, we looked at the best companies. Well, from a customer experience perspective, what were the best experience companies doing well, and it came down to three things. One is they had a very deep understanding of who their customers are, their prospects as well what those needs were and how those needs were evolving. Number two is they invested, they would take this information. It doesn’t say what seems like rockets, it’s not rocket science, right. But they would take this information, these insights and design experiences through the journey with the, with that information at scale. And thirdly, they, they, they use this information to create a customer lead culture. And those three pillars, you know, there are different sorts of behaviors and activities that are associated with each one of those pillars. And it’s, it can drive the difference between your customers feeling ignored, versus your customers being obsessed with the brand. And, you know, back then we even identified the exact specific behaviors and activities that organizations should be doing, including a scoring model for the business. And you know, and then we would work with the business, okay, you want to be obsessed, you want your customers be obsessed, here are the things that we need to do to get there. And it was a great model. A lot of great work from the team went into that a lot of long hours, but unexercised really well worth it and created a bit of a roadmap for us to be able to engage the business on with as well.

Gregorio Uglioni 16:11
I think this is extremely important. And now going to these topics, one after the other. Speaking about insight, Insight is really key to get this knowledge, this understanding about customer, you said, customer obsessed, let’s start understanding the customer before you’re obsessed about about the customer. How can you leverage insights, really to improve this intersection between customer experience and employee experience? And perhaps also why I’m asking this question, I often have discussion also with C suite, and they’re saying, we need to do something for the customer. And then please start altering initiative to improve the employee experience. And then we need to do something for the products and what you’re saying, is this close everything together. Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on that.

Bill Staikos 17:00
Yeah, sure. This so this is a topic that is really near and dear to my heart. And I talk a lot about this with with with executives, I was actually on a phone call on a phone call today with an executive. And you know what one, I want to say that there’s a lot of survey fatigue within companies, not just from customers, but even within companies. You hear a lot of executives say which do too many surveys, right. So when I think about insights and understanding, I don’t think about sort of the 12% of the population that responds to a survey, I think about, you know, really thinking about all the signals that you have access to, to understand your customer and understand your employees. So as an example, when you look at Medallia, only 20% of the signal capture we have is from a survey 80 percentage from financial data, social media, transcription from speech to text, sentiment analysis, text, analytics, operational data, that’s the other 80%. So when I say deep understanding and listening, I really mean a 360 degree view of your customer, as well as your employees, it’s a little bit trickier. on the employee side, obviously, there are very, very strict regulations in country by country, frankly, obviously, Switzerland being one of them, excuse me. But where you can bring data together to understand it is really important. And you know, the technology exists today where you can bring both those datasets together, and let the AI figure it out for you, right, like where where’s Where does one work? And where does the other not? Where do they both work where they both don’t work? And I think that looking at the entire end to end behavior, even even digital behavior, you don’t have to ask a single question, right? You can understand digital behavior with technology today. So that’s where that’s where my mindset goes to when I started talking about insights and deep understanding. It’s okay, surveys are they have their place, they’re important. They’re, you know, not only interesting overall relationship, but even just down to the transactional level, there’s a time and place for them, but really think about how do we expand to capture all signals from our customers? How do we bring that data together in a smart way to be able to analyze that, and then look, let’s look at the corresponding employee data. And mash that up and analyze it in a way that helps us identify new patterns, new ideas, new behaviors, that result in the business outcomes we want to drive. For example, if you are a mortgage company, you want to sell mortgages you want. You want people to submit an application. And I think starting from that, and this may be a little bit unorthodox for a CX leader to say but I think you need to understand what what do we want the customer to actually do like how do we make money or how do we reduce our costs are how do we improve culture? Let’s just say we want the customer to fill out a mortgage application. What are what are the behaviors that lead to that from a customer perspective? What are the processes that flow into that? And then what are sort of the operational metrics that help us understand that? And then on the back end, by the way, post mortgage, are they happy with the experience or not? Right? And, you know, being able to think of that measurement framework, or that hierarchy in that way, really opens up insights in new and different ways.

Gregorio Uglioni 20:37
I think this is extremely interesting, and leveraging your example related to mortgage, and we worked on an application form for other type of uploads. And we find out that taking one question out from a form that it was not relevant, or not really mandatory to ask, increase the filling rate by 2%. It sounds not so much. But if you go through each question, asking these questions, then extremely help designing the experience in the way that the customer really have a frictionless process and can quickly go to that, and basically elaborating on experience design, what are the key elements from from your point of view on experience design?

Bill Staikos 21:23
So I think comes, you know, you know, when I think about sort of experiences on I think about sort of the design thinking process, right, starting with with empathy, right, really, really understanding who your customer is, you know, at a previous employer, this is a great example. And something that I’m really proud of the team at this company for doing it, I won’t mention the name. But what we did was, what we did was provide, we connected the CX platform with JIRA, the workflow platform for these developers. And you know, what we did was, have persistent feedback, go through these persistent teams. Because if you go talk to a developer hands on keys, right, there’s, I don’t have time to go talk to a customer, I don’t have time for customer feedback. But they go through a two week sprint, and they talked about the customer all the time. So how are you designing and creating value for a customer if you’ve never talked to them? Or if you never hear from them? Right? So I think one is starting with empathy, having a deep understanding of what who your customer is creating design principles to design against that keep you on that sort of Northstar. And then having persistent feedback, go through the channels through those workflow tools. So teams can create better user stories, which leads to lower technical debt. It also leads to ultimately better measurement against OKRs. Because now you have a customer lens on your OKRs not just sort of we we produced this widget in 60 days. You can you can create innovation sprints around this insight, and really bring the team together in a meaningful way. We actually trained the entire product organization, about 150 people at this place, on design thinking methodology, how to be a practitioner of design thinking that had profound impact on how they organized ran or two week sprints. Now instead of a two week sprint, from a, you know, agile perspective, it was a design thinking workshop. So you’re prototyping, building something, or trying to solution testing, really an iterating very, very quickly. And I think a lot of organizations, if you’re not like a SASS company, or like a small product company, let’s take these big, big banks as an example. They’re now slowly starting to realize the benefits of that model and are trying to put it into place and the results once they figure it out. I think it’s going to be really profound.

Gregorio Uglioni 23:59
I think what what you’re saying totally makes sense. And it’s also extremely linked to the culture that you have in a company, the opportunity to train 150 employees, it cost money, but the leaders are not seeing the cost of training this 150 people, but they are seeing the benefits after these people are trained, what they can achieve and you quickly and clearly explained how we were able to in order to achieve results if everybody was the same language about design thinking, and then also creating your results, and perhaps touching a bit also the topic culture that I think is key in every company because we are all human beings. From your point of view, what are your, let’s say, most important points to nurture a positive genuine culture in a company.

Bill Staikos 24:49
So I love this line around culture. I didn’t make it up. I don’t know who I can attribute it to, but I heard it somewhere. You know, culture is what you reward and If you reward the bad behaviors, you’re gonna get bad behaviors or bad culture, if you reward the right behaviors. I think culture is a very personal company. Topic. Not too many people like the word culture anymore. It’s, it’s a little bit too fluffy, a little bit like customer experience on some level right? Now, a colleague of mine, and I put this in a post not too long ago said, Oh, leaders think that CX is like sprinkles on ice cream. Culture is a little bit like that, too. Right? I think it’s about for me, like the best cultures, at least I’ll talk to the best cultures that I’ve worked in, you have leaders that, you know, really, they are authentic, and they show up as themselves every day, they encourage their team members to do the same. And they walk the walk, I just posted something about my boss today actually on LinkedIn, amazing leader, right? She’s creating a culture in her organization, where openness, dialogue communication, ideas are rewarded. And it’s a fantastic thing to not only see as an employee of a team, and as a member of a team. But it’s also it’s nice to be able to say, you know, have that example of what leadership can be, and be able to filter that down. The thing about culture for me these days, Greg, is that in the middle, that middle management piece today, is really, really suffering. And I don’t think that I don’t mean to generalize across industry, but there, there really needs to be a renewed focus on that middle management. Because they’re not given the tools and the resources to be successful. By and large. You’ve got people obviously, than leaving the company, right. And you have the great resignation, because their direct manager is not able to support them the right way. But they’re the ones responsible for delivering on objectives. And these metrics and measures. Yes, executives are too, but it’s a very different perspective. So, you know, when I think about culture, I think about top to bottom, bottom up, the CEO is 111 x 1,000th of the culture. They’re an important voice in that, obviously. But I think it’s about, you know, listening, encouraging ideas, encouraging fast failure, encouraging innovation, and, and every warning for those behaviors at the end of the day.

Gregorio Uglioni 27:39
I can only say Amen. That’s, that’s the reality, because I have nothing to add. The only question that I still have in relation to countries, you spoke about your your not boss, your leader, whether the person responsible for you? Do you have any older example that you can share you would like to share about these really great cultures and companies?

Bill Staikos 28:05
Yeah, I think it’s a, you know, I think the last thing that I’ll add is that the best cultures are where you know, you it’s a safe space to be able to have open dialogue. And some of it is I mean, it’s not always easy, right? It’s not always like an easy conversation. But, you know, sometimes, in the best cultures, even the toughest conversations, you feel confident bringing those topics up. And I think that is a real sign of a culture that is really thriving, where the leader of that group, or whoever that is, the CEO included, has created a safe place, you know, psychological safety, call it whatever you want, where you and I can disagree as an example. But because we work together, we’re gonna move past it, or we’re gonna find a solution. Right. And I think, I think creating an environment like that is super important. And, you know, the organizations that I’ve seen, has been most successful, not necessarily from a customer experience perspective, but just from a general organizational perspective, are the ones that are create sort of an environment where those conversations can happen naturally and freely and without any ramification.

Gregorio Uglioni 29:23
I think this this totally makes sense. Because at the end, as we are at all we would like to be in the business we would like to have discussion as we are arriving in the feminist club clear there are different setups, but at the end, I think if we feel safe, comfortable, then it’s easier to work. Yeah. times is flying and therefore now we quickly close our eyes. We are 10 years older, and we are still on the CX goalkeeper podcast, and I’m discussing will be which will take us what we’re discussing about In relation to customer experience,

Bill Staikos 30:02
oh 10 years from now oh boy. So what is that 2022 2032 I so I think about the future of CX a lot. I think that we are talking about a discipline that looks very, very different than it does today, the skill sets needed, and within the next 10 years are going to be very different than they are today. I think you’re gonna see skills like data architecture, I think you’re gonna see skills like cycle psychology engineering, I think you’re gonna see skills like financial engineering. I think the CXO I talked about the the future for future archetypes for the CXO technologist futurist practitioner, in data science, data, architecture, data, data architecture. And I think that new technologies in 10 years, certainly, let’s say by 2030, wearables. The ability of six g, I think, you know, when it’ll be the the internet of everything that the Internet of Things by then new technologies, like no code, low code, that will turn you and me into citizen developers, it’ll be about talking not about typing, right. And that will create these micro innovation. Each individual as a consumer will become their own innovation kind of center, and be able to create their own experiences and hack, the experiences that are delivered to them in real time. So you have real like experience actualization. The other thing that I’ll add in 10 years, and this is something that I’m really keen on sort of understanding and doing more thinking around, is this concept of Omni verse. And today, like, Omni channel as a term is 20 years old, and 2023 next year, okay. And I think with the advent of things like the metaverse, we’re just leaving, let’s just say extended reality. Generally, that can include virtual and non virtual worlds. I think that as consumers or as businesses, we’re going to have to start thinking in the omniverse, because consumers are going to be jumping out of fully virtual immersive environments, they may still want to go into our branch or retail store, they’re going to still call a contact center, maybe over the phone, not through a virtual world. And they’ll be bouncing in and out of these. And I think that’s where like design generally. And the ability to design across multiple different mediums and platforms, digital and non digital has become even more and more important over the next couple of years.

Gregorio Uglioni 32:46
And I’m looking forward to this future and to you and creating this future all together. Bill, it was a big pleasure. The referee is telling me we still have three minutes for the three questions. And therefore let’s quickly catch up with the with the last questions. Is there a book that help you during your career or during your life that you would suggest to do that?

Bill Staikos 33:11
Yeah, a couple actually, Joe Pines book, the experience economy in 1999, literally changed. It’s why I got into this work. Matt Watkins in the grid has I mean, and then the third one is the wall allocation rule by Luke Williams. Those three books changed my perspective on customer experience. I mean, more than any other book that I’ve ever read. And I go back to them a lot in reference them. And yeah, I mean, that that, for me is sort of the test of time, right, when you’re when you’re constantly going back and rereading. But also going back to notes in the margin and saying, that’s what I needed. And you know, that is, those three books for me have been absolutely critical to my, to my advancement, my career, my thinking around this space. And there are just three people that I admire and respect

Gregorio Uglioni 34:05
the most. Thank you very much. And what’s the best way to contact you?

Bill Staikos 34:10
So I’m really active on LinkedIn, DME me up through there, that’s number one, check out be customer led – becustomerled.com . But the app, please please, if you have if you if you’re new in the CX space, DME, I mentor a lot of different people, especially folks who are just breaking into into customer employee experience and happy to do it. So I really want everyone who’s doing this work to be a great success.

Gregorio Uglioni 34:42
So thank you very much. And I add and please subscribe to the podcast of dealing with the customer lead because it’s really, really interesting posted podcast, go there, subscribe and then come back because now we’re coming to the last question is Bill Bill’s golden nugget. It’s something that we discussed Something new that you would leave to the audience.

Bill Staikos 35:04
The one thing that I will leave for the audience we talked a little bit about on the show, Greg, you know, think beyond the survey. Too many organizations are in this survey, break, fix kind of mentality. And think about what other data or sources or customer signals you can access to really round out your understanding of the customer. For me, that is the single biggest thing that is holding back our discipline today. And I don’t think the survey will ever go away, who knows, in 20 years, maybe it will, or 30. But like, That, to me is this very survey driven mentality is really holding our discipline back. So start exploring, where you have other signals from your customers how to bring that data together, and work with your work with the teams internally to be able to do that partner with them.

Gregorio Uglioni 35:56
Thank you very much, Bill, this is the perfect conclusion, because in 10 years, you will come back to this show to discuss about the omniverse. And in 20 years or 30 years, you are coming back to discuss what we are doing because we don’t have any service anymore. The only thing that I can say is thank you very much. It was really a great pleasure to have you on this show.

Bill Staikos 36:19
It was It was my honor. Thank you for having me on. It’s a real pleasure. And like I love, I love meeting people even alive you and I’ve exchanged a little bit over the over the last year. But it’s an honor, being on the show and just talking about this stuff with other six leaders like you, I really do enjoy it.

Gregorio Uglioni 36:35
Thank you very much. Please, Bill, stay with me and to the audience. Thank you very much for your time we really like and we really enjoy your feedback. I’m not sending you a survey, but please let us know your feedback to build or to order or direct to me, and I’m happy to share that with Bill. Thank you very much. It was a great pleasure. Bye bye. If you enjoyed this episode, please share the word of mouth. Subscribe it, share it until the next episode. Please don’t forget, we are not in a b2b or b2c business. We are in a human to human environment. Thank you

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