Episode released on: 27. December 2020
The CXWG2020 & "The Customer Experience Playbook" with Jonathan Daniels – S1E1 – Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper
The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Jonathan Daniels
LinkedIn Headline: Leading Customer Centric Transformations.
Highlights:
- Jonathan speaks about his great book THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE PLAYBOOK and his experience as a Captain at the Customer Experience World Games 2020
and much more
Jonathan’s Contact Details:
Guest’s Golden Nuggets:
- Definitely, I have packed all my thoughts, insights, etc, into the book, The Customer Experience Playbook. It is available on Amazon, either as a physical copy or through Kindle. I really encourage you to have a look at the book is packed – full of information.
I have packed all my thoughts, insights, into my book: “The Customer Experience Playbook”. I really encourage you to have a look at it. It’s packed, full of information. @cxcentricglobal on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast
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Transcription:
Gregorio Uglioni 0:04
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much today I’m speaking with Jonathan. Very happy and welcome to this first discussion about customer experience. Jonathan, you are extremely active in the community in the community of customer experience. You are working on customer experience frameworks, you wrote a book, you have CX Brussels. Can you please elaborate a bit what you are doing?
Jonathan Daniels 0:29
Yeah, Gregorio, really thank you for having me first. And yeah, I’m just doing a lot to promote customer experience and customer centricity. Because I’ve seen the power it can have to really grow businesses. So yes, CX Brussels is a networking platform. In Belgium, we support customer experience professionals, and other professionals from it marketing sales come in and around Belgium, support them to share, to grow their to grow and advance their careers. So that’s what we do. Also, our recently have finished my latest creation, the customer experience playbook that’s here. Not sure if you can see it very well. Yes, so this is with the framework, around implementing customer experience governance, what meetings, what roles you need to have, what sort of documents you should be filling out how often you should have these meetings. And it also talks about leading customer centric transformations. It’s got a four step process in there called icon. So yeah, that’s just a bit about me. Very busy, very active. I’m just looking to promote customer experience as much as possible.
Gregorio Uglioni 1:49
Thank you, Jonathan. That’s great. Is my interpretation correct that you are linking your work with your passion?
Jonathan Daniels 1:56
100% 100%. You know, I mean, my passion or spend some time last year sitting down and saying, what do I really care about my three values, creativity, challenging traditions, and the third one is impacting lives. So 100%, with customer experience, and customer centricity, it fits right in with my values.
Gregorio Uglioni 2:20
Thank you very much, Jonathan. I think we have to first tweetable moments with the fear topics that you mentioned, thank you very much. Oh, can you balance all the working together with family and what you’re doing? And with perhaps you’re also obvious?
Jonathan Daniels 2:36
Yeah, this is very difficult, you know, I have to say, I think obviously, family comes first. So anything that needs to be done with the family comes first. And that gets planned in, that’s set in stone. And then you just have to find ways of being efficient, you know. So for instance, with the book, I was traveling to one of my clients every day, it was, say, a 45 minute train journey. And I will just write the book on the train wreck do a lot of reading on the train. So you look for ways of being efficient and using your time wisely. But yeah, things like family, they come first. And that’s just the way it is. It’s good to have support and family, you know, you can help push and who understand the work that you need to put in and stuff like that. So I appreciate I’ve got really good family around me, that can help.
Gregorio Uglioni 3:31
Great, thank you, Jonathan. I think this is really important to find that balance between what we are doing, and also our families. But let’s come to the main topic of today. For me, you are the captain. And why I’m saying that, because we participated together to the first customer experience war games organized by limetropy. And perhaps could you give some information out? How did it started what you were doing, and why you did it?
Jonathan Daniels 4:02
Yeah, definitely. So are connected with Christopher, who had sort of lost entropy, and who, who headed up the customer experience well, games. And yeah, he sort of contacted me, and we were talking about other sorts of sorts of collaborations. And, yeah, it was just in sort of March, April time he mentioned though, would you like to capture one of the teams, and he explained to me what it was about, and I can see that there was so many, it was going to be such a good thing, you know, a good thing because what we were doing, we were looking at ways of improving experiences. But we’re focusing on good causes, not charitable causes. Small businesses who have just started out, you know, you could see there was a lot of human sides of it, so I was really keen to get involved. And yeah, it was such a great experience I have to say. I think for me Ah, the probably the biggest thing was, first of all, the fact that we were impacting people’s lives. But also, on our side, the team side, we really created a good team. And even though the games are finished, we’re still in contact with each other, still supporting each other, still helping each other. So yeah, I think that’s been a great thing. So really thank you to to the launch up team for for putting this together.
Gregorio Uglioni 5:30
Thank you very much, Jonathan. I fully agree. I was participated as a member of Jonathan’s team, and it was really great to be there. And to work for charity, purpose, supporting SMEs, SMEs, or also feminists having troubles. Are you the only one capitals or were the other capitans?
Jonathan Daniels 5:50
Yeah, there were other captains we had. Obviously, James, the Rockstar, we had Adrian, the CX punk we had. Wow, not CX punk. But yeah, author of some punk CX, we had the Heid as well. And then we also had Sharon, there was a few other captains. And each Captain sort of led their teams a bit differently, use different ways to communicate, and came up with some some really great and different sort of solutions to the problem. So it’s been really enjoyable to see the difference, you know, in how we approach the same problem and the same challenge. Sorry, I don’t know. Gregorio. I don’t know, if I missed that one of the captains, I didn’t have the list of them here.
Gregorio Uglioni 6:48
No problem. I think at the end, we can mention all the captains because I think it was really a great customer experience, expert cruise, we had the best of the best in in the different teams. And I was also very happy to participate. Perhaps Jonathan, could you please elaborate? What really happened to you during this five challenges that we worked on? How did you structure the work? What were the challenges? And what was the result? It were it was required delivery?
Jonathan Daniels 7:17
Yeah, definitely. So yeah, at the start of the challenge the games, it was interesting, because at the start, you never really know how interactive or how active people are going to be. So at the start is the case of connecting with people trying to find out if they’re just being nice, and they’re gonna say, Yeah, we want to help. But then, in the end, they cannot commit time at the start is like this, just really testing the waters. But then after, once you get into it, you start with, we started with about four or five people in the team who were very active. And then it just kept growing and growing. People were like, Okay, we’re, I was a bit busy last week, now I have more time. And yeah, it started getting better and better. And for me, it’s all about giving people a voice, giving people people the opportunity to say what they think. And yeah, just to be transparent and open and honest. So that’s what we tried to promote. And that’s what we did. I wasn’t really a prescriptive captain, I was just sort of facilitating, you know, we had really good people on the team. And everyone sort of came up with their own suggestions and ideas. For instance, we were using mural, and that was through alien. So mural is a platform for helping mapping out all the journeys and carrying out all the sort of brainstorming activities where everyone can share their screens and see all the information that was really good. And also, there’s just loads of ways that we became more efficient. So things like filling out the end template with work back from filling it out, instead of sort of coming up with lots of ideas and then having to cherry pick. And then things like even writing things up. We had people who basically volunteered and said, Okay, I’ll write it up. And someone else would say, Okay, I will check it once it’s written, basically everyone, because everything was open, anyone who wanted to do something, they had the opportunity and, and that’s what they did. So I was lucky to have a good team, even with you, Gregorio you know, there was times where me even I was, I was not even pulling my weight. You know, as a as the captain. I was, I wasn’t putting them away. I was, I was like, a bit busy on certain weeks and you stepped up yourself. You said, Oh, Jonathan, let me help you out. Let’s try this. Let’s try that. Let me push it forward. So really, it was lovely to see and that’s what it is to be a real team. is for, you know, it’s not about the titles, it’s just about, okay, let’s work together to get a good result, you know. And yeah, really excited and really happy to have been involved in this in this project.
Gregorio Uglioni 10:13
Thank you, Jonathan for the great explanation. I think also from my point of view, we learned quite a lot. And and if we speak about the challenges we were working on, like supporting cat coffee, how to improve the experience out to get back people buying stuff, and looking at the cats and looking for the cats, it was really great to work together. For me, one of the most interesting things was that we went through this process, forming norming storming extremely quickly. After a few minutes, we were able already to create content to prepare some strategy, or to support this cat cafe, or our to find a way to get money for the small child that needs money for a surgery or something like that. I think this was really, really important. And all the ideas coming from the different participants, somebody more specific from marketing, somebody working more on digitalization, somebody leading the team, it was really great, how we supported each other. And I think the next question is, the team organized itself quite well, because we were also during the lockdown. And sometimes we had also some additional free time, or we were at home, and then we were able to work together. What’s your view on this topic?
Jonathan Daniels 11:36
Yeah, it was tricky. Because in a lockdown situation, dealing with the pandemic, you don’t know, how people have been affected, you know, some might have even been affected physically or, you know, could have actually had Corona or family members and stuff like this. So you have to get the balance, right. So for us, what we did is we just blocked out the calendars, you know, so we said, Okay, on Tuesday at 5pm, or whichever time, this is a time, we’re gonna work on this, and we just blocked the calendars. And then whoever managed to attend with, you know, we just push along with them and just be as open and transparent way as possible about the task and, and just ask for their feedback. And then we do things like making sure that all the information is available to the people who couldn’t attend, still giving them a chance to participate via email. And, and people did you know, people say, Okay, we couldn’t make the meeting, but then they were still able to send some really excellent points through email. And then also, we had new players who sort of joined each week, because you know, some people heard about the games halfway through. And it’s just a case of giving them a good welcome. And just letting them know, what’s the structure that we work on. So just basically having a good structure. If you have a good structure, the team eventually gets into good rhythm, and this sort of clear on on the way we work. So that seems to work well for us. What do you think we go?
Gregorio Uglioni 13:09
Yes, I fully agree with you. And I think we were really very supportive. If somebody was not able to prepare some something, somebody else stepped in and helped him. I think we had really a great team. CX ambassadors. Really cool team. Thank you, Jonathan. Perhaps, let’s go to the next question. What are the three main things that you learned during this customer experience war games?
Jonathan Daniels 13:34
Okay, the first one for me was definitely the importance of purpose, or think that the world games really helped support people in a very difficult time, support, businesses support charities. And, you know, it was clear that the reason why we’re doing this was for a good cause. And this meant that people who got involved are really, really passionate, actually. And we’re really happy to help very engaged. So I think it just sort of how like brought home the point, that when you work for something with a clear purpose, it becomes easy to get people to rally around the idea. That’s the first one. The second one was just how competitive people are. People are so competitive, you know? Because it was no, because it’s a competition. It was quite interesting to see sometimes we didn’t win any. I’m not sure if you can hear this wind, by the way. So I was gonna say, yeah, it’s quite interesting to see how competitive people are. It was framed as a competition. And I remember sometimes in a team where we’d have meetings after not winning the last challenge, and the morale was so low. I’m saying Come on, guys. You know, we’re here. We’re just giving our best it’s okay. But yeah, some people got really sad halfway through With the winning, so it’s quite interesting just reminds me how genuinely competitive people can be. So that’s another thing that I learned. The third is, I think I’ll definitely say that I’m better at customer experience now, you know, so lots of different ideas on how to map journeys, what to think about when you’re designing new experiences, talking a lot about customer experience strategy, and basically just being able to speak and spend time with so many good professionals even like yourself regarding, especially with things like gamification, etc. I’d have to say, I’ve just learned so much some better customer experience now than I was a few months ago.
Gregorio Uglioni 15:43
Thank you very much not. And I think this, I can really share what you are saying. It was great time, we learned quite a lot, and very, very happy that you were our captains because you have a massive new hour and customer experience. Perhaps also for for the audience. If somebody would like to talk with you to be in contact with you. How is it possible?
Jonathan Daniels 16:04
Yeah, I think just connect with me on LinkedIn. Jonathan Daniels, that’s the easiest way. Also on different social medias, but probably stick to LinkedIn is the easiest.
Gregorio Uglioni 16:17
Okay, perfect. Thank you, Jonathan. They yes or no questions? Will you participate again to the customer experience wargames?
Jonathan Daniels 16:24
Yes. 100%.
Gregorio Uglioni 16:28
Thank you, and I will share exactly this idea.
Jonathan Daniels 16:32
Okay. Yeah, that’s fine. That’s fine. Sorry. I just, I was about to say something. And I realize I shouldn’t say Yeah, so I will just say yes. 100%.
Gregorio Uglioni 16:42
Thank you, Jonathan. I think it’s important that we have the discussion. And even if it’s not everything clear that people will understand what we are explaining. Thank you very much. And perhaps the last question, do you have the last thought idea, insight that you want to share with the audience with the people hearing and looking at this video deserves more webinar?
Jonathan Daniels 17:05
Yeah, definitely have packed all my thoughts, insights, etc, into the book, the customer experience playbook. So this is available on Amazon, either as a physical copy or through Kindle. So yeah, I really encourage you to have a look at the book is packed full of information.
Gregorio Uglioni 17:27
Thank you very much, Jonathan. And I think we are coming to the end, I will really buy your book because I am expecting quite a lot from these books. Therefore, you will have the first person buying it. It’s me where he had to get it. Thank you very much. And to the audience, thank you very much for yielding to us to getting our insight on the customer experience war games organized by line trophy. Really, really great experience. And thank you, Jonathan, to sharing your experience from your garden. Sorry, to the people that there was some wind in background, but it’s really great to see that you are in your garden, and you’re enjoying your vacation. Thank you very much for your time, Jonathan. Thank you.
Jonathan Daniels 18:09
Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate that.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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