Approaching The Metaverse miniseries 1/3 with Pasquale Borriello and Andrea Ciulu – E110

Episode released on: 23. January 2023

Approaching the Metaverse with Pasquale Borriello and Andrea Ciulu – miniseries 1/3 Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper

The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview

Pasquale Borriello

LinkedIn Headline: CEO Arkage 🚀 Nüborn + W-mind + Acquisition Team 🧠 Italian CXPA Network 🎙 Engage.it Money.it #IlBernoccolo

Andrea Ciulu

LinkedIn Headline: 🔶Head of Creative Strategy @ Arkage

Highlights:

  • 00:00 Game Start
  • 01:06 Pasquale Borriello & Andrea’s Introduction and Values
  • 04:48 The definition of Metaverse
  • 07:30 What we should expect from the Metaverse
  • 14:17 The Metaverse Use Cases
  • 19:04 What to do in future in the Metaverse
  • 24:43 Web3, Metaverse and decentralization
  • 28:59 The Metaverse in 10 years from now…
  • 32:05 Book suggestion
  • 34:44 Contact Details
  • 36:13 Golden Nuggets

and much more…

Guests’ Contact Details:

Their book suggestion:

  • A Pattern Language by Christopher Alexander
  • Life 3.0 by Max Tegmark

Guests’ Golden Nuggets:

  • Andrea Ciulu: Thinking about the episode of today and thinking about the sake that curiosity is a driver. I say: jump into new things but keep a foot out. It’s very easy to be sucked in and there’s nothing else by what’s new. Always be a little bit skeptical about every novelty. I think that’s the healthiest way to go forward.
  • Pasquale Borriello: Try to listen more than you actually talk. So, listen before you talk, but also if you can just listen. (…) But also try to experience a lot more than you create. We, as creatives, want to create but maybe we have to read more, to listen more, and to live many more experiences.

Try to listen more than you actually talk. So, listen before you talk, but also if you can just listen. @pazborriello on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast @thearkage

Jump into new things but keep a foot out. It’s very easy to be sucked in and there’s nothing else by what’s new @andrea_ciulu on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast @thearkage

#customerexperience #leadership #cxgoalkeeper #cxtransformation #podcast

What did we discuss?

Gregorio Uglioni
Ladies and gentleman welcome to the CX goalkeeper podcast your host. Greg will have smart discussions with friends, experts and thought leaders on customer experience transformation and leadership. Please follow this podcast on your preferred platform. I am sure you will enjoy the next episode with the guest I selected for you.

Ladies and gentleman today tonight. It’s really a big, big pleasure because I have two big friends Andrea and Pasquale, together with me and we are going to discuss about the metaverse. I decided after 100 episode to start also deep dives in some topics, and often out of the questions that I’m asking to all these expert international experts the word Metaverse is popping up every time and therefore I said it’s time to deep dive. And I’m super happy to deep dive for the first time with Pasquale and Andrea. Before we discuss about this big topic. Let’s start with a short introduction round, perhaps Pasquale, do you want to introduce yourself? Sure.

Pasquale Borriello
Sure, Gregorio. Thank you. I’m so happy to be here. And it’s also my first podcast in English so I’m a little bit excited and also maybe shy. Anyway. I’m the CEO of Arkage. We are a creative communication agency working, I would say at the intersection between customer experience and communication. I’m also CEO of Acquisition team, which is a company dedicated to fundraising, digital fundraising. I’m a board member of W-mine, which is a company focusing on data science and with a Data Science Academy, also I have five kids and a wonderful wife. I have to say that even if maybe she won’t listen to this podcast, but anyway,

Gregorio Uglioni
thank you very much Pasquale and Andrea, short introduction from your side.

Andrea Ciulu
Yeah, sure. Thank you. Gregorio. Thanks to be here. Very glad to be here. First of all, I’m Andrea Ciulu. I’m a creative strategist with our Arkage. I am also a copywriter. So I come from a creative background. And I’ve been working on creative ideas, my whole professional life, let’s say with a always with an eye on innovation. So I like to discover what’s new, I would say. So I think this episode is going to be really, really interesting.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you very much, Andrea and Pasquale. And perhaps also from my side, I have long collaboration together with Arkage we started few years ago, also with CXPA Italy. And we had weekly meetings. And Pascal and Andrea are really doing things that I don’t understand. But it means it’s even more interesting because they are really creative guys. And I listen to their podcast. It’s in Italian language, Italian “Il Bernoccolo”, and they discussed already twice, at least about Metaverse, Facebook, and what Zuckerberg is doing with the metaverse and I said, I want to have you both on my podcast. And now it’s really time to kick off the discussion. But before going into the into this, this really interesting topic, and Pasquale, which values drive you in life.

Pasquale Borriello
I think that probably the most important value that I like to discuss about is transparency. I basically, maybe I think, because I don’t have time to be non transparent. So I just don’t have time to create a reality, which is not my own, and to create stories, which is, maybe we’re from a communication perspective, but that’s what I like, of my life. And also, I love to be committed. So what I expected in life is to have a commitment, wherever it is about work about life, but personal life. And also I think that great things in life come when you don’t expect them. So I like to be open minded, and I would recommend to be open minded and just listen to the people and see what happened.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you for squadra and giving the ball to Andrea, what are yours?

Andrea Ciulu
one driving belly for me is curiosity. I like falling down rabbit holes. And I think when you follow curiosity thing, good things come. So I try not to repress curiosity. And the other thing is, it’s actually a Japanese term, but it’s quite known as the Kaizen which is improving a little bit every day. And I think it’s something that it’s it’s accessible to all of us, but the results are unimaginable. So I really like this vision of life improving a bit every day.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you very much. And I think if we could mix what you said about your values, we would have also an agile manifesto. I know that your company is also set up Like an agile business, and therefore, I think it’s really important to have this discussion, and this this overview of similar values. But let’s now deep dive in the metaverse. I think we are having a discussion from Switzerland to Italy to Cyprus, and therefore it’s decentralized. But before deep diving, I would like to ask Andrea, what’s your definition of the metaverse?

Andrea Ciulu
I think that the purest one that you can give is a permanent virtual world that is accessible to everybody at the same time, but it’s permanent. So it’s there all the time. It’s actually a parallel reality. That that’s what the metaverse is supposed to be, not what it is maybe today, or what it’s supposed to be in my opinion.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you, Andrea. Pasquale, perhaps Andrea said it’s digital. And now we know that we have augmented reality and all different these these different realities. What’s your view on on the metaverse? What’s the Metaverse? For you? I

Unknown Speaker
I have to say that I disagree a little bit with Andrea, which usually happens during our podcast. Because I think that, like in a general way, the metaverse is more like the next iteration of the web, or the internet, if you like, with an additional layer of experience. So it’s, I don’t expect it to be decentralized. I mean, not by default, but I expect that we will experience somehow the fact of being connected to the Internet, what we do now with our mobile phone or with the computer in a different way. And the difference will be about experience because it will be more immersive. Of course what we will be probably in virtual or augmented reality, as you said. But basically what I expect from the metaverse experience is that we will experience the world internet or web. I use it in in a different way. But let’s call the web or in the internet now with a with more with a better, like immersion of our experience. So basically the next stop will be the metaverse, whatever it will be.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you, Pasquale trying to bring you together because it’s a friendly game all together, not one against the other. I think and that’s that’s the metaverse is the next version of Internet as you are saying, after web two that was all about so social media. Now we’re coming on web three, and 3.0. And this web three will enable and ensure that we can be in this digital world in this Metaverse where we’ll have immersive experiences. And at the end, from my point of view, perhaps far away from everything, it’s an additional channel. And it’s somewhere when we can go and meet all together. And I think there is a lot of discussion nowadays. And for sure, one years ago when Zuckerberg announced the rebranding of Facebook into Mita. And they are speaking about Mehta I was in decentraland. And but nowadays it’s don’t really like where it crowded where a lot of people want to be everybody was discussing about it now a bit less and what’s happening in future what should we expect from Metaverse, Pasquale first? And then we go to Andrea.

Pasquale Borriello
Okay, so I go first. I, I really don’t like what the matter is, looks like now from what I can understand. And probably we’re not a heavy user of the universe. And I think there are not many heavy users of the metaverse. So I think that maybe it’s it’s just too early. So we there’s a there’s a long way to go. Or maybe no one has already cracked like the killer app yet. So maybe there’s something that we’re missing. And the company that will find that that part. Obviously will will win at the beginning. Maybe Apple maybe meta maybe someone else, I think but what I believe is just too early to to understand what the metaverse is really about. In the beginning of the internet, it will be it was the same thing. So maybe the researchers at universities use that thing that nobody understood and we had to Maybe we had everything. So it’s just, it’s really just the beginning. So that’s why I don’t understand why Zack just told everybody okay, I want to invest in the metaverse, it’s way too early, maybe 10 years? I don’t know.

Gregorio Uglioni
I think what you’re saying it’s really interesting. Somebody were required to do the first step it was this time, so I can work. And at some point, in times, we’ll come up with a better solution or a close solution, and and offer this, this experience to their customer, to their user. But Andrea, from your point of view, why, for example, we read that in decentraland, there are not so many users, and clear, it was also my first experience using decentraland. I tried to log in several times, it didn’t work. And then when I was in there, to be honest, it was not so fun, from my point of view, but perhaps I’m also a bit too old for for that. But what’s your view? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker
I think he had the numbers for the central they were honestly quite embarrassing for the platform and know whether they’re true or not. Yeah, they’re very small. And I think our view and our enthusiasm for the metaverse were quite biased by the lock downs, and the fact that everybody just had no other outlet. If you think about it was the same thing with clubhouse, for example, that was supposed to be the next big thing, until everybody just went out for a charity when they had better things to do. Now coming to better things to do. That’s probably the major thing with the metaverse, we don’t have yet a reason to go there. Now people are building the technology, there’ll be the infrastructure. But I guess the winner will be the one that will find and give us a good reason to go there is not I mean, it’s not surprising that actually the first iterations that we call the metaverse and where the brands are actually spending money and getting some numbers are games, games that are Metaverse eco, if that’s even a word, but that they’re built upon a reason to be there. And there comes the environment thing fortnight Roblox and Minecraft. When when people have reason to go there, then you can build things upon it. If you just build a 3d world, we’ll just go to spend your time as you experienced, that there is not a lot of reasons to just attend these empty plazas. And you know, it’s, it’s be alternating. So I think we need probably more creatives and storytellers and world builders, if it’s going to be an immersive word. On the other hand, if it’s an AR word, just layer as possible and say, which is very probable, that is juxtaposed to our reality. Yeah, that would require even more reasons to be there. Because we don’t want to just cover a reality with something that doesn’t serve any purpose. So in any case, we need I think, narratives, we need interactions. And this is I can see that yet. It’s really what is missing in the, in the scenario,

Unknown Speaker
Andrea to add a little bit more context, the last email I received from meta quest as a meta quest pro owner, is an email reading, become a superhero become Ironman, which is totally, I mean, in topic from what you sell, because unless you want to be Ironman and you want to play, there’s nothing. There’s not much more to do in the metaverse.

Andrea Ciulu
Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you, if you think about the you compare it to the narratives of the great of the big games that I just quoted, this is really shallow. It’s it signals like a lack of ideas, if you think about fortnight, about how intricate the the narratives are, how many IPS they bring in the game every three months. I mean, there is a lot of work to keep things happening is not like build it and they will come is like make it happen. And they will come.

Pasquale Borriello
Because there are so many things to do out there. So why you have to Yeah, so many more at home with with the request anyway,

Gregorio Uglioni
trying to summarize what what you’re saying what is still missing is the experience. And we are in an experience economy and is still extremely improbable, that are a really good experience that you can interact with people. I was in decentraland. And it’s really the first thing if I think back when we were waiting for the Internet and this would there was this BBB beep until we connected to the internet. I think it’s the same time but I tried to interact with somebody else it was impossible in no way to interact with somebody else have a normal discussion due to latency issues due to that it was not working properly and so on. And I was in there for half an hour Hour, 40 minutes. And I met two or three people to be to be honest, it was not so crowded. And it was not so possible to have discussion. I think Pasquale we mentioned about something like games, which are the older use cases that you can see coming in the next few months or years in the metaverse.

Pasquale Borriello
I think there could be some nice opportunities in the workspace business, like having a monitor and virtual monitors with more space to do Excel. Doesn’t sound very exciting. But it will be interesting. And the new camera of the metaclass Pro is really high fidelity compared to the ones that on the Metroparks. One, for example, and also the learning environment. I see some space there, because maybe people want to when we do online learning, maybe we could take advantage of a more friendly environment. But of course, I mean, all day with with that heavy thing on your head is not very, very nice. So but maybe workspace and learning will come first. And of course, we had the entertainment and games. But I tried to play the f1 video game with the quest. And I mean, I felt like vz after one lap. So it’s it’s really maybe for heavy players if it works. But for just casual players again, and I’m a bit too old for that maybe.

Gregorio Uglioni
But you are young insight, and therefore you are still using these goggles and trying to find way to use that and use cases. And at the end, I think it’s now it’s really about game and with a new spoke about using it in business for meetings in for educational purposes. Perhaps Andrea, on the long term thinking in future. Are there other use cases that you can see or you can foresee about about the metaverse

Andrea Ciulu
where I think we might want to be in virtual worlds. Only if either the experience is totally immersive, so you don’t have the even physical roadblocks that Pasquale was mentioning. So the experience now is not that great. We might even see. And this probably has to also do what is happening with social networks. The Metaverse could also be our small private space, because what we see now is that the big generally social networks are crumbling down and people are moving to closer communities of of people who are more similar to them. So maybe we could imagine that are the metaverse rather than being a huge space to explore will be a safer space to be in. So we should really pay attention to what is happening to social networks first, because that is one thing. People think that the metaverse is mostly for meeting people. So it’s a crowded place like but we were not sure about that. I mean, as Pasquale was saying that the main use cases for now will be mostly focus on smaller groups or individuals. So I can’t really see like a huge Plaza when the huge plazas of today are dying out. Just to be filled with avatars. I think that’s a pretty old way to see it probably is more like smaller rooms, or something like that. It will evolve from the use cases that Pasquale was mentioning now. So I think during an evolutionary perspective, we cannot really predict what will live and what will not

Gregorio Uglioni
Sure I think what what what you’re saying is we need also to learn because often people are discussing it. It’s technically still at technological issues. The development of the metaverse, some people are saying it’s more the legal side about rules and regulations in their holes are speaking out to integrate the human beings and motion and so on in the metaverse where we’ll be key. However, I think that we are at the beginning, we are doing our first first let’s say baby step in this in this world. But Andrea from What are your experiences that you are facing in the metaverse and perhaps also to then build build upon this question on this question. And what would you like to do in future in the metaverse?

Andrea Ciulu
Well, if you mean as a user, I probably tried more the gaming world and the Other ones, mostly because there are not really other ones I tried at the central end, and I’ve been on special and I’ve been on on cyber, and some others. But I have to say that these feel like proof of concept platforms rather than real words. So the feeling there is that you’re not using your time very well. The experience doesn’t make you feel safe. And I think this is a main main point for the experience in the future. We want to feel safe in digital landscapes wherever they are. We are aware from our experience, you know, from social network and so on. So we need to feel safe, we need to feel guided, we need to feel, you know, in a place that is not the wild wild west is not the time of Second Life. We are not all pioneers, we cannot expect the metaverse to become mainstream, just because of pioneers want to go in. In a wild land, we need to get people who want to be in a familiar place. So my my experience of our has been Yeah, of being a bit out of place everywhere. Not because I didn’t understand the platform, which was easy, but because it feels a bit frantic, and, you know, not guided and without the purpose that doesn’t think I would like to be more guided by the platform itself.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you, Andrea and Pasquale, which are the use cases that you personally would like to see in the next future.

Unknown Speaker
I see that need of a safer place. But I don’t think that would be the main reason to join any kind of metaverse. So I think that probably something entertaining and or athletes to something that you cannot do in a standard physical manner, maybe could be the reason to join any kind of metaverse. In particular, if you can wear the thing, like the metal quest, or any anything that I think similar. So I really don’t see where I don’t know where this thing is going. But as an owner of metaclasses every verse on version so far, even if none of them I’m particularly fond of so it’s like just testing, testing, testing, I can see there might be some space in something different or maybe accessing some kind of realities that you don’t usually have access to. So like concerns or maybe something something else. As in we are all we all have young kids. So you, you you might understand, Gregory that if you have kids, you cannot just go to a concert or to a football match or anything because it needs time you have to leave the house and, and so on. But if you can access this kind of experience, maybe you can. You can find a reason to do that on the metaverse. And of course the experience of joining the metaverse with a mobile app or maybe a browser is not that like exciting and it’s not really a different experience. We all know where the Warcraft like 20 years ago and it’s not that different decentraland and sandbox and maybe Roblox I can I cannot really understand Roblox. I’m too old for that. But I can see maybe there could be a some kind of sweet spot. We’ve also tried to merge like the metaverse thing and the NFT thing and the web three and so on. So I can do this kind of branch off keyword, this keyword salad. And we can find we can understand there’s a space of innovation in terms of getting on the metaverse in a virtual way. So not really experiencing 3d world, but maybe experiencing some kind of parallel worlds through avatars and ft and that kind of ticket to join. So I think maybe we need more corrigin Also something really different to understand the value of the metaverse and to be honest, maybe Facebook and meta is not that brave company that we need to crack the metaverse world. Maybe we need some, some decentralized company or maybe a bigger one. And I think bigger than Facebook. There are only a couple of companies like Microsoft, maybe Amazon maybe apple? I don’t know. TikTok?

Gregorio Uglioni
I think you’re really sorry, TikTok can be but I think you’re really coming to one point you are mentioning the big giants. It’s Microsoft, it’s apple and all these big giants, but for my understanding and the philosophy be Beyond this, this idea the metaverse is to be decentralized. But if we give that into the hands of Facebook Meta, or Microsoft or Apple is really as decentralized, as all people are discussing about the web3, perhaps Pasquale, you can start and then we go to Andrea.

Unknown Speaker
I don’t think that the decentralization is embedded in the metaverse concept. I mean, the definition I like to to talk about of the metaverse is not like decentralized, as I mean, the web or the internet is not, they’re not decentralized themselves. I know that the blockchain thing and that blockchain and the web3 is decentralized. It’s decentralized technology. So it’s the I mean, as a database, and the blockchain are different. Maybe web two and web three will be different in the same way. But what we experienced now the centralized Metaverse, they are nice. I mean, we usually we want to have centralized experiences, because if we want a safe place, maybe we we want a company that gives you all the content and the experience. And maybe a company is better suited to design a great experience than like a decentralized experience. It’s like we talked at the last episode of our podcast, Twitter versus Mastodon, is that the name Andrea? And it’s not that it’s it’s not a nice experience. You want an experience where you’ll find people and is it centralized? I mean, do we live in a centralized world? Of course we do. Because we we have laws, we have a democratic system. So it’s not like the decentralization is all the I mean, the important things of the metaverse is not only that, in my opinion, of course, the web experience we have is not the centralized itself. And I mean, with this decentralization come, many, I mean, problems and responsibilities. So it’s really a power and not it’s not that everyone wants that power.

Gregorio Uglioni
And I think he wants to comment on that.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I I agree on this with with Pasquale. I think decentralization is as nice utopia in a way. But, you know, with what, three, we thought that decentralization is a purely technological matter, actually, it’s a social matter as well. So we can have a technology that allows for decentralization, but we tend to centralize you see in web three, we are seeing some centralization on dowels. And, I mean, it’s decentralized in theory, but then we tend to flock around some sources on centers of power, which is not always good. But as Pasquale was saying, when we are looking at the experience, and I will add, when we are looking at story words, for example, a narrative that I think are what holds everything together, you want a central narrator that makes the narration feel true. Now we were quoting companies that my hack the secret to the metaverse, and I will have a name like these names, you know, these knees moving in that space. Disney has, for example, Star Wars, which is already, let’s say, a mother’s in itself, not a technological one. But it’s a word that we all inhabit. And, you know, you can travel to the Star Wars word whenever you want with your imagination or in the park, and tomorrow, maybe in the metaverse. Now, that kind of word is what will draw people to a metaverse. So you need a big company, or at least a big IP to make that feel true. Many small ideas will probably not amount to a Metaverse people want to be in. So I would bet on big companies as well.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you, Andrea, and perhaps staying with you now. It’s 2030. It’s roughly in 10 years time. How will the metaverse impact our life?

Unknown Speaker
Oh, my God. Well, I have to go first. Andrea please go this.

Andrea Ciulu
So you have time to think about this very hard question. You know, they say that we tend to underestimate the impact, sorry, overestimate the impact of technology in the short term and underestimate it in the long term. And usually in the long term is the most more pervasive impact. So it’s rather than being a flashy, flashy impact where you have like everybody’s on the metaverse all the time, which is what we think and what we thought during the pandemic like everybody will be hooked to the metal quest 24 hours a day. You will probably be more subtle like the internet is today it’s everywhere but we don’t really feel that we are accessing it. So it will be probably become easier to access will become seamless will be probably be applied to The surface of reality as Pasquale was saying, and I guess the use cases that will make it easier for us to reach our goals are the ones that will survive. I think, let’s look at the pandemic, what what was useful and easy are stuck. Everything else just got back to normal. And that’s how humans work. So if it makes it easier for us, you will stick if it just fleshy will, you know, fizzle out? That’s, that’s my idea.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you, Andrea and Pasquale.

Unknown Speaker
Thank you for giving me time to get to the solution of this. I think I mean, who knows? I think that not even Mark Zuckerberg himself knows that. What’s the future of the the metaverse in 2030? So that’s why he has got some problems recently. I think we have a screen time problem. I mean, we we have too many screen is we are addicted to the screens. And I think that probably the problem that the metaverse will solve. We have we don’t have it very clear yet. But it’s a screen time problem. So where when we will just try to solve that problem. We’ll get to the metaverse. Like, for instance, maybe I forgot to mention Google. I think Google is the company which is best positioned to rule the metaverse because they have data that they they know the intentions of people. And they have the solutions because what I do in my life is usually do things and see people right? And if I do things and see people in the metaverse, I can totally forget about the screen. Because we are all addicted to screen. And if you remove the screen from like my digital life, then I get to the metaverse, that’s, that’s what I think will will look like Metaverse in, in 10 years. Eight years, to be honest. So clock is ticking. Thank you very

Gregorio Uglioni
much for Pasquale. Now we are coming to the to the end of this game to the end of this discussion. But I still have three questions for you in the last three, four minutes of this game. Let’s start with Andrea, is there a book that you would like to suggest to the audience that helped you during your career or during your life?

Andrea Ciulu
Korea will suggest a book that is really unexpected, it didn’t really help me in the professional life, but I think it might help. Think about experiences even in the virtual world. And it’s a book from 1977 is called a pattern language. It’s a book about your urbanism and architecture. But it’s more than that. It tries to track what humans like in the spaces they inhabit. Being cities, the houses the villages, looking at how humanity selected certain forms. And I think some of these things we have lost, they’re mostly vernacular. And we might want to look at that to build our physical experience, even in a virtual world. I think it’s illuminating. It’s being a book from the 70s, as you might imagine, is not a vertical text is more philosophical. But I suggest since I mean, the listeners will have read all the books from last year. Let’s look back at another decade.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you, Andrea. And I think now it’s getting difficult for you, Pasquale to find a better suggestion.

Pasquale Borriello
Yes, I’m Yes, absolutely. I come with a with another book. It’s life 3.0 by Max Tegmark, who is a physicist. So it’s more about the future. So it’s more expected. It’s totally not unexpected. And it’s about artificial intelligence. And it’s also about how the AI will will change our life, I would say. And but it’s it’s not about the metaverse future. It’s not about that. It’s about how we create a like a new kind of life through computer and computer technology. I think it’s really fascinating in seeing how the the life will change. And it’s about life. It’s not about it’s about humanity. It’s not about technology. So the the metaverse will have to do something with that. I don’t know how much but I totally recommend this this book life 3.0 And it’s also it was also recommended by Elon Musk, which is it I don’t know if it’s it’s a good point now. Anyway, anyway.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you for staying with you. What’s the best way to contact you if somebody would have some questions?

Unknown Speaker
I think probably on LinkedIn, you can search for Pasquale. Boriello I I’m sure you will. You will have this on the notes of the podcast. And that’s that’s the place where you can more easily find me.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you and where we can find Arkage.

Unknown Speaker
Our page: welcome to the arkage dot com website and we are on Instagram, Twitter and on the social media platforms.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you for Pasquale and coming to you Andrea, what’s the best way to connect with you?

Unknown Speaker
You can find me on LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram just search Andrea Ciulu, there are not many with these names. It will be pretty easy. A share both professional updates and you will find some AI art as well, which is one of the latest rabbit holes I fell into.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you Andrea and perhaps where we can find your podcasts together with Pasquale.

Unknown Speaker
You can head to the il bernoccolo podcast.com. You can find all the show episodes there or you can search for il bernoccolo on Apple podcasts or Google podcasts or Spotify. That’s also a pretty weird name. So it’s easy to find.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you Andrea and for the audience, if you are understanding Italian then have listen to it, because it’s really a great podcast outstanding discussion between Pasquale and Andrea. And now we are coming to the end of this podcast. But before you leave the last two questions, one for Pasquale, and one for Andrea. And let’s start with Andrea, could you please share with us your golden nugget it’s something that we discussed or something new that you would like to leave to the audience?

Andrea Ciulu
Well, thinking about the episode of today and thinking about the sake that curiosity is a driver, I say jump into new things, but keep a foot out. It’s very easy to be sucked in and there’s nothing else by what’s new. Always be a bit a little bit skeptical about every novelty. I think that’s the healthiest way to go forward.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you, Andrea and Pasquale. Now it’s your turn. It’s the closure of the podcast, the end of the game.

Pasquale Borriello
Oh my god. So much responsibility. I would advise to try to listen more than you actually talk. So listen before you talk, but also if you can just listen. And of course, for a podcast, that’s perfect because you can only listen. But also try to experience a lot more than than you create. I mean to understand the metaverse, I think we are all listeners or watchers if you prefer. And it’s really I think we as creatives we all want to create. Right? Talk but maybe we have to read more, listen more, and also do more experienced many more experiences. That’s that’s my advice.

Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you very much. Pasquale. Pasquale and Andrea, please stay with me for one minute. We are closing the pot, this podcast. It was a great pleasure. Thank you very much to the audience. This was the first episode about the metaverse I hoped you enjoyed that feel free to contact Pasquale, Andrea or me if you have any question. Thank you very much.

Andrea Ciulu
Thank you.

Pasquale Borriello
Thank you.

Gregorio Uglioni
If you enjoyed this episode, please share the word of mouth. Subscribe it, share it until the next episode. Please don’t forget, we are not in a b2b or b2c business. We are in a human to human environment. Thank you

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