Episode released on: 13. February 2023
Orchestrating Customer Experience in Business with Mark Slatin – Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper
The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Mark Slatin
LinkedIn Headline: Empowering mid-size financial service leaders to turn indifferent customers into loyal fans
- 00:00 Game Start
- 00:36 Mark’s introduction
- 02:47 Mark’s values
- 04:34 The global CX field
- 07:17 The biggest challenges that CX leaders are facing
- 09:37 Cultural Change
- 12:50 Support from the Top Mgmt
- 15:40 Employee Engagement
- 19:13 Breaking Silos
- 22:33 Meeting in a box
- 30:28 The future of CX
- 35:06 Book Suggestion
- 36:06 Contact Details
- 36:45 Mark’s Golden Nugget
and much more…
Guest’s Contact Details:
His book suggestion:
- Chief Customer Officer 2.0 by Jeanne Bliss
- Winning on Purpose by Fred Reichheld
Mark’s Golden Nuggets:
- Fred Reichheld has something he calls the miracle wheel. And that is the wheel of your organization that enriches the lives of customers and turns out customers that love you, and your brand.
- To me, have the discipline of having a roadmap: knowing where we are, tracking the progress and identifying what’s the next right step in each one of these areas that we need to work on. And then just go along with that perseverance.
- Keep pushing, keep persevering. You can make a difference in the lives of your customers.
“Keep pushing, keep persevering. You can make a difference in the lives of your customers.” @Mark_Slatin on the CX Goalkeeper PodcastTweet
Have the discipline of having a roadmap: knowing where you are, tracking the progress and identifying what’s the next right step in each one of these areas that you need to work on. And then just go along with that perseverance. @mark_slatin on the CX Goalkeeper PodcastTweet
#customerexperience #leadership #cxgoalkeeper #cxtransformation #podcast
What did we discuss?
Ladies and gentleman, welcome to the CX goalkeeper podcast your host, Greg will have smart discussions with friends, experts and thought leaders on customer experience transformation, and leadership. Please follow this podcast on your preferred platform. I am sure you will enjoy the next episode with the guest I selected for you.
Ladies and gentleman, tonight it’s really, really a big pleasure because Mark Slatin together with me. Hi Mark, how are you?
Hey, Greg, good to see you. Thanks for having me.
Thank you very much. We met for the first time few months ago, but the since then then we started chatting, writing, having calls, and I am super happy that you accepted my invitation you are since long time in the CX word. And I’m super happy, super thrilled to speak about customer experience together with you. But as usual, I ask my guests to do a short introduction, the highlights of your career that people that don’t know you get them and a short overview on your career.
Sure. So I started out the first 23 years or so is in sales and sales management, I worked for a couple of fortune 500 companies standard register and Boise Cascade Corporation, and decided to strike out on my own and management consulting role. I did that for about six years, in the latter part, joined a small, very small consulting firm, and then had a client who was a bank. And then the bank decided they wanted to have a full time, CX person that was internal and internal resource. And the CEO hired me. That was 10 years ago. And last year, I decided to go back into independent consulting, and help out Empower companies and biz business leaders, CX leaders to turn in different customers into loyal fans. So I’ve been I’ve been doing that. And I have a podcast and myself and just can’t wait to have you on my podcast. So that’s that’s the run up.
Thank you. Can you please elaborate a bit on on your podcast where we can find it? What’s the name of the podcast?
Sure. Thanks for asking. It is called the delighted customers podcast, and can find it anywhere Apple Spotify, it’s on all the major can. I guess at some point, we’ll get to the the website but it’s empowered CX is the name of my company and empowered cx.com. And I have a podcast where you can podcast tab where you can reach get a hold of all the podcasts.
Perfect. And I would suggest the audience to follow your podcast because I’m quite sure that you will delight also my audience tonight, and therefore please follow Mark podcast. It’s really a great one. I listen to several episodes, it’s really good, great guest and therefore I’m super happy to have a fellow podcaster together with me. And I think we are not only sharing the passion for customer experience and for podcasts. But I think we are are sharing also some values. But I leave it to you to share your values with the audience.
Well, thank you. Thanks, Greg. I think when I think about my values, I think what’s important is clearly family. I have my wife, Amanda, and I have five kids and four grandchildren. I have a mom’s still living. And and so family is just critical. To me, I think also sort of loyalty. I’m kind of a loyal person to my friends. And I, I think they are to me, and that’s really important value to me. I like to serve people. So I do do certain charity work and also try to do what I can to offer free products and resources in my business. Because I just have an empathetic rule. And I think also like the golden rule. And I do my best not perfect, but I do my best to treat others. And I think also, I think in the CX world, the platinum rule comes into into play, which is you know, I can see you shaking your head, but it’s, it’s not necessarily do unto others as you would have them do unto you, but do it to others as as they wish. Right, what they would like and not so much what you would like. And so that those are things that are important to me.
I think there is enough value in what you said we can conclude the podcast. Thank you very much. No joke aside, but I think the audience is also understanding that feeling that we share this value about family about loyalty, helping helping others and I think also as a CX leader. We are there as a change agent and I think this is the topic or the topic that we are going to this Customer, the customers customer experience leader as a change agent. And perhaps to kick off the discussion and this game, understanding better the role of the customer experience leaders, a lot of companies are heavily investing in change, sometimes focusing on the customer, then sometimes they forget to focus on the data on the customer. What’s happening in the field? Because you are active globally?
Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, for all business, there has been a lot, we’ve all had a lot of change over the last few years. And from, from the pandemic, and now the economic downturn, and there’s been so much consolidation, no matter what industry you’re in, I know, I went through two acquisitions, and that during pretty much during the pandemic, and so when you’ve got all this change, what happens, I think, for CX leaders whose job really is primarily, in my opinion, cultural transformation. It’s hard, it was hard to begin with, but when we wear so many hats, but it’s even, it’s even harder. So So we’re seeing, you know, we’re seeing some cutbacks. I’m on the board of ci cxpa, the customer experience Professionals Association. And, and, you know, we get, we get some reporting, and so forth. And we’re seeing some level of cutbacks and CX roles, some are being absorbed into other departments. Some are being disbanded completely. And those those that are, you know, Forrester did this report this prediction, that one out of five CX programs would disappear by the end of 2023. That’s, that’s a pretty bold statement, potentially getting statement. But they also said that, there’s a number of them that will do be even stronger, if they if they’re doing the right thing. So these are some of the things that we’re seeing changes that, I think with market compression, with economic uncertainty, the role is even harder for CX leaders and, and people who, in an organization, whatever, whether they’re CX leaders or not, who are trying to make a difference for their customers.
I think it totally makes sense. It’s really interesting. Also, what you share this to this Forrester report saying 20% of the CX program really will disappear, it’s quite a lot. But on the other side, it’s extremely motivating. Because if you’re doing the right things, then you can continue and you will continue. And this is what Forrester, Forrester is sharing. However, we are discussing about, let’s say about the challenges that we have in the CX community that have CX leaders, and what are the biggest challenges that customer experience leaders are facing in business?
I think, I think it’s a bit more of what what it was before the pandemic, but a little bit more of an emphasis on a couple of things. One is, you know, speaking in the language of the C suite, and when I say that, it’s really all about bringing value to them. For some of them, it’s the ROI of, of CX, and it’s a numbers thing, and it’s quantitative. And there’s ways that you can do that. For others, it’s, it’s avoiding risk. Any large corporation now has a risk or chief risk officer or a risk management program. So it could be that language others, it could be more about, you know, reputation, and another’s right now, one of the things is how do we how do we either, you know, provide products or services that are going to better suit our customers. So they may be like, if you’re a pharmaceutical company, it’s a generic brand shift. You know, how do you support that? How do you understand what the customers need work with your marketing department? I think it’s those things. And I think it’s also how can you save the organization money, CX is generally about delighting your customers so much that, you know, they come back and they bring their friends and they buy more from you. But there are also opportunities along the way that you can take unnecessary costs out of the out of the system. So those are things that you know, as a CX leader, I think you need to pivot to and focus on and listen to what it is that your leaders especially the key stakeholders are, are interested in and respond to those.
And I think what you’re saying is extremely interesting and we will elaborate on the on the on the stakeholders, but something that still come back to my to my mind in your first answer. You said the main target or the main task of a cx lead CX leader. It’s cultural change, cultural transformation. Could you please elaborate a bit on that?
Yeah, I think it took me several years, because we wear so many hats. As just from from having gone through it, I can empathize with those people are still going through it is, you know, one minute you are a voice of the customer, you’re building out your platform, and you’re doing surveys and getting insights there the next minute, you’re what we just talked about proving the ROI of CX, you’re spending time building relationships with key stakeholders, you’re preparing reports for leaders, senior leaders, and the executive team. And the list goes on of all the hats, you know, that you’re wearing? Well, it took me a while after doing all these things, and setting up what I believe was a good basic infrastructure for the organization to realize, well, this is really about change. This is cultural transformation. This is not one, it can’t be one department or a pocket of an organization because that from the customer standpoint, it’s one you it’s one company, it’s one brand, so everybody has to be a link in the chain that delivers that excellent or outstanding experience to customers. And so that means from end to end, from the time, you know, your employees and your customers start to the time they’re done. Their experience makes a different and a difference. And so it’s really everything from, you know, having what I call a CX roadmap, right, and I have I use developed a five step model for a roadmap, which I think every CX leader should have one doesn’t have to be mine, but should have a roadmap that includes where you are now, where you want to be a CX, a set of principles and a mission about what your CX experience should be like, for your, for your customers. And then and then have priority projects that are that are placed on this roadmap. So you can be accountable to your leadership as to how you’re bringing that value to them. And that you’ve got a path and, and so this transformation is so big. And it’s you know, for me, I think, I think as a CX leader, your role as a change agent, you know, there are a change management professional professionals and, and we should probably learn more about that, with respect to the people who do that that’s not, you know, that’s not what we do completely, but it is an important aspect of our job of our job. And understanding that you are a change agent than in all that’s involved in, in doing and doing organizational transformation.
I think what you’re saying it’s really gold dust, it’s everything that’s in that we need. And we are doing and you are as you’re saying, we are changing hat in different roles. And one topic that you mentioned is also stakeholder management, stakeholder involvement. And let’s deep dive a bit on this topic. And I think perhaps it’s a bold statement, but it’s something that I learnt also throughout my career. Without top management support, it’s quite difficult to progress. And perhaps, how do you get the support of top management?
Yeah, I think one of the one of the things that, you know, if any of your listeners are interested in Greg, you may have one too, I developed a key stakeholder, it’s sort of a blueprint on how to how to develop a roadmap to for your key stakeholders, and it’s a key stakeholder map. And it’s so it starts with, you know, assess thing, who are the people that are involved in that, that you need to have a relationship with to get things done? I mean, that’s the simplest way to do it. And then, you know, there’s a process of saying, okay, are these people, you know, where do they fit into four quadrants? Are they high value, high impact? Are they people who can facilitate? Are there people who can’t really get things done, but they’re important because they have a tremendous amount of information that you need. And then there are other people who have a lot of power and influence, but they may not be right involved in a certain project. So each one of these these different groups needs to be addressed, but in a slightly different way. And then that so that’s understanding where they are on this map is the first step. And then the second step, which is ongoing, is how do you build trust with them? And we just had a webinar if anyone listening as a member of cxpa, hopefully you’ve got you got some cxpa members. There is a free resource. There was a it was a workshop that we did, I think about a month It’s a month ago, late in 2022. That is Cx Pro as a change agent. And we had Andrea how on the show who wrote the trusted advisor field book. And we talked about different ways that you can build trust the four components of, of, of trust worthiness, and, and how you can go about that, I think the first step is just realizing, number one, there are key stakeholders, you probably ought to spend some time figuring out who they are, where they sit, how they influence your work as a CX leader, and then, you know, start thinking about how you really can become trustworthy, and build those relationships.
Thank you very much. I think you, you have a lot of interesting resources that we hope and I hope that we can find those on your web page. But we will come to the contact details, because I think this is really interesting out for resources. And I think that’s what the audience needs, really tangible actions, what they need to do what they need to take what Mark already learned during his career, it’s something that he share again, and I can reuse without doing the same mistakes that we did in our past. And therefore, thank you very much for sharing all this this information? I think we spoke about the top management, but now we need to go also one or two levels down. And what’s about employee engagement?
Well, employee engagement, yeah. So that’s, that’s also a big one. That’s another half that we were right. So in its like I said before, about customers, it’s end to end the experience, the end end experience. So even before they become customers, too, even after they leave us. Hopefully, they’ll come back at some point. But there are good reasons that customers leave us. And there are some customers that don’t really fit our niche. So that happens, while employees. So it really is the employees who are for the most part, delivering this outstanding experience or whatever you want to call it to our customers. So the same thing, it’s end to end it’s from before they even join your organization, what are they seeing and reading out there on your website, for example, or hearing from your recruiting, you know, Frontline, then when they go through the process of interviewing, what are they hearing about what the job is going to be like? How are they treated as as an employee? And then once they get signed up, you know, what’s the onboarding process, like? Do you have an orientation that has, you know, carved out segment to let them know about what the customer experience is like, and what the expectations might be for them, and what their role and contribute contributing to a remarkable customer experience my what career opportunities they might have. So So it involves all of that, because what we’re talking again, about is cultural change. And for me, I looked at it this way, I looked at it as you know, we had, when I sometime around the time, I was several years, and we had about 1000 employees where I worked, There ended up being more than that by the time I left, but so I considered it 1000 light bulbs going off, you know, one at a time. And when that light bulb goes on, it doesn’t turn off easily. I mean, it really just stays on. And you know, that idea of an employee who gets it, who gets customer experience, who realizes it’s, you know, it’s bigger than than just them. And ultimately, it helps them with all the things they want to accomplish job security, promotions, all those things. And most of the people who come on board, really want to serve, they really want to do a good job for their customers. They either don’t have, you know, the tools, they’re not empowered to make decisions. They’re they’re issues with silos between departments, we can talk all about the challenges, but most people really want to do it. And, and so if it’s part of your culture, if it really is something that’s critical, then every employee should, you know, feel this is what we do. This is a way of, of how we work.
Thank you, I think this is extremely important. Because at the end, if we are our employees, if we are people, then we trust them, and then we should really trust them that are working in favor of our customer of older employees. And I think I don’t know, really a lot of people that will go every morning to the job and I say, I want to disrupt my business or to do bad things. That’s that’s not possible. Nobody will do that. And therefore it totally makes sense. But you mentioned something that it’s also relevant, and you mentioned silos. And there I think it’s also relevant all this department that they have different targets, and often they’re they have concurring targets, perhaps do you have some ideas, some practices out to break silos?
Yeah, well, I think I think, you know, I mentioned some of the challenges. And it’s really important to understand what your specific challenges are. In the case of silos. We, we did something back around 2017 2018, called the year of empathy. And, and a lot of that was to really empathize with the customer and their experience, but empathize with other employees. So, there’s two things that come to mind. During that year, we did something called the widths workshop, wi t. ‘s stood for walk in their shoes. And so we had, you know, three people, and we did with this with every employee in the organization, we had 37 Different groups come through, and three people would sit and we’d rotate, and basically roleplay a scenario or case study. And they didn’t, they didn’t sit in their role, like they sat in someone else’s role and work through the roleplay and had to problem solve. That was a that was an interesting, you know, instructional design. And a lot of lightbulbs did go off, you know, for people. And it’s, you know, how it impacts the customer, how some decisions get made internally how what it’s like to be on the other side of that, when. So that was one thing. Also, in the year of empathy, we had something called a team exchange, you were asking before about practical how to kind of think so the team exchange is one of the easiest things we did, except for some clerical stuff, which was joining two teams together, which would be two departments that tended to work together, but really didn’t get to know each other other than over the phone. And so the whole purpose of it was to meet each other socially, in an in a non work environment, just a brief explanation of what your department’s mission is. And, and then we got to say, what’s, what’s something interesting you’d like to do outside of work? You know, what are some of your hobbies? What are some fun things you’d like to do? You’d like to, you’d have a kid in swimming, I have, we live at this at the pool. So you get to know people as human beings, and break down those silos. And boy, that is one way to really work together and get to know each other. The other the other thing I was gonna mention is, and you may you may ask me about it. So stop me but the the initiative we had called meeting in a box,
I think this is something I would love to hear about. And I already had the pleasure to listen to that to what you shared in other podcasts. But you forgot to mention that you are an award winning transport cultural transformer, and you did this meeting in a box. Could you please elaborate a bit on that and take the time soon it because I think this is really something outstanding, mind blowing as you can define, we are we want to teach was really, from my point of view, really a great, great initiative.
What I love about meeting in a box, and thanks, thanks for saying that. And yeah, for for for meeting in a box, which was I think, in 2014, was designed and implemented 2015. We won the CX Innovation Award. Three years later, the the year of empathy, which I just described the some of the things that we did during that year, we also won, we also won the CX Innovation Award, but meeting in a box healthier of empathy. And I’ll explain what it was and why it was developed. First, why it was developed. It was developed for silos, that was definitely one of the issues. It was developed to educate our employees. That’s one of the first thing what is customer experience? And this is not too long after one customer experience actually became a popular word. You know, so they didn’t know what we meant by that. Oh, yeah. Customer service. Yeah, we have a contact center, right? No, not exactly. So education. And meeting in a box was so we had issues with silos, we had opportunities for people to think about how to link their role their job to the customer, right? Because some of them we were in a bank, so it was audit, regulatory management, legal, how do you connect what I do to the customer. So that was a big part of it. So meeting in a box was really a simple design. And it was essentially, it’s called meaning in a box because initially, there was a physical box, and in that box was 12 folders, one for each month of the year. Inside of each folder, we would publish a one page facilitators guide. And originally it was the managers who would facilitate discussions with their teams. Now What was the content, the content of those we work with our learning and professional development team, and came up with a plan for the year each year. So that year and each subsequent year, there was going to be like a theme for the year. And it we build in some flexibility, if we have life events, world events, you know, so we could go off course if we needed to. But essentially, it was a communication vehicle on a monthly basis that every department and therefore every, every employee, and I will tell you, it’s was an every employee. But more than half of our employees did this, every single month. And from the time I left, which was from the time we started, it was about eight years, so it kept going. The because you could then insert whatever topics you wanted, it was designed to augment your monthly or a monthly team meeting. Right? It was once a month, you had it, you could fit it into your schedule, whatever time during the month, we would publish it out of the CX department. And so it might be it might be something like, what are customer X? What are expectations? Experts setting expectations? How does that impact the customer experience? When you tell them the home equity line will be done in 25 days? And another another manager says it’ll be 35 days? How are we setting these expectations? If it’s actually 30 days on average? So then what’s what’s happening there? And why is it happening? So that would be one example we had June, July and August a couple of years ago was diversity, equity and inclusion, what it meant how it applied. And so these would be there would be an sometimes we had videos, we had video skits that were done by employees, that were sort of case studies, we could put whatever we wanted into the meeting in a box. And and we and we had, we had the the employee survey, we have the employee survey, we had announcements about why it’s important. They took the survey after the survey was done. There were global results for the whole enterprise. And then there were local results within their division or area that they got to see the meaning of the box was discussed the results as a team and develop an action plan that was Do you know, that had to be approved by the manager that was due by a certain date by the next meeting in a box. So the managers liked it because we could use it to serve their business goals. And we liked it because we got to educate on customer experience and employee experience because they were kind of evenly split each year. And it’s something anybody can do ultimately became all digital. Because we need the need to get these boxes around. But it was a good way to launch because it was physical and tangible.
Thank you very much. I think it’s super interesting. And the thing that I really like is often the customer experience team or deployments or small teams, and you often try to go to all the people and to explain and these and that and so on and what how you structure that you outsource the task of explaining the things and going through the things because of this box. And therefore I think that’s it’s really helpful because it means you don’t need to go to everybody. But you involved all the employees or the managers to doing that. And this is I really liked that. And I think it repeating that every month, it’s a good timeframe to speak about topics to discuss about topics is not so much it’s not to less and even better if it went throughout all the all these years,
Greg and a couple of things, it’s more fun. And so if you think about it as centrally developed, centrally designed, but locally, implemented, locally delivered, so they got to talk about how the topic affected their department. Right, so it was relevant to them and managers, great opportunity for the managers to bring up, you know, issues that don’t ordinarily come up. But as a team, they could talk about the sometimes they were hard things. We spend time talking about what is empathy during the year of empathy, we defined empathy, we talked about how we can be more empathetic to one another. The other thing is I mentioned that the guides that we develop the one page facilitation guide, sometimes there were attachments, little supplemental things like like a guide or a model or something a framework or a definition. But it evolved to where the manager would rotate the facilitation of that meaning to someone else. And we had an experience champions group that was a group that learned about CX in a more a deeper way, who had an interest more deeper interest stayed together for eight to 12 months got a certificate graduated from that program. Well, once they graduated unless someone else was coming up through that program, they were going to be facilitating the meeting in a box. And as a manager, you could have someone who you were thinking about, you know, promoting, or that’s, you know, candidate for promotion, and give them a leadership professional development opportunity by leading their meeting in a box. It’s a low risk thing. It’s a fun thing. And so it afforded a professional development opportunity.
Thank you, I would like to spend much more time discussing with you, but we need to check the timing. And we spoke about best practices. And now perhaps, let’s jump in the future. It’s 10 years from now, we are back on the CX goalkeeper podcast, what we are discussing about.
Yeah, so I think I think the framework is not going to change a whole lot. We talk about things like customer insight and understanding, design, implementation, innovation, CX strategy, you know, metrics, measurement, leadership, and accountability, those things are going to stay the same. I think the way that the kinds of things we’ll be talking about will be a little bit different. For example, right now, we’re using electronic surveys through email that’s, you know, very, very popular, it’s low cost, it provides some good information and provides us the ability to do a closed feedback loop and deal with any any hot issues. But we’re already starting to see some early adopters move into using AI using NS getting unstructured data and feedback, like, for example, through the one example is through the call center, where you can use voice analytics, and find common phrases and have the computer crunch that data and say, Hey, these are the top three things that customers are really love. And these are the top three things that are D motivators, you know, what can we do? So I think I think that’s one thing, I think also in regard to that, we could engage customers with more co creation of products and services, right, I think it will be easier to get their involvement, I think we can, with the help of technology, we can get it quicker, faster, and more accurately iterate a product and get closer to you know what, and this is going to be really important, what your ideal or your high value client is interested in. So and then you’ll get better at that is deciding who are, you know, our most valuable clients, the ones that are most loyal refer, people are willing to buy more product and more forgiving, all those things, we’ll have way more intelligence about that. So we’ll talking about about that. I think also, because there’s going to be a shift and fewer human interactions. A bad example of that is these bots, that the chat bots, right now that are out there that aren’t, for the most part aren’t doing a good job of satisfying customer needs. They’re reducing cost for the short term costs for the companies. But us usually people want to have a live conversation. So those companies who can strategically have human to human contact 10 years from now, it’s almost like writing a handwritten note, you know, now as a sales professional to a client. It’s so rare, it used to be the way everything was done. And now it’s so rare that it’s a special thing. I think that humans human contact, it’s a higher cost channel for a company to interact. But there was an opportunity used wisely to differentiate. So I think that brand differentiation, product service differentiation, those companies that don’t rely solely on AI, those companies that over rotate on on AI, machine learning etc, are going to are going to have a rude awakening because at the end of the day, human beings are human beings. And by their very definition, they’re unpredictable. There are things that affect human beings. Like we don’t we don’t know the outcome, but you can I’m not gonna say I was gonna say the outcome of the Southwest Airlines problems they had around Christmas. We don’t know the the long term outcome of that they obviously took a hit. But there are companies that were can recover from a reputational risks and others that they can’t. And those are human things, you know, that? How can a computer measure that? You know, so I think the wise companies will use AI to leverage their the frameworks that we talked about, and not rely on the as the AI as their primary source of decision making. input to augment what, you know, their human intellect and experience tells them.
Thank you very much Mark, we are coming to the end of this game. But in the extra time, I still have three questions in the last three minutes of this game for you. Is there a book that help you during your career or during your life?
Well, in my career, I would say, the Chief Customer Officer 2.0, because I was Jeanne Bliss wrote that and I was in it did, I was featured as we did a little case study on actually on this topic of building relationships with key stakeholders, our C suite. So I P asked me to do a little case. So that was a great book, because she goes through, you know, the case for a CEO to hire a chief customer officer. And other another book is winning on purpose that just came out from Fred Reichheld. And that’s, that’s up to date. He talks about Net Promoter 3.0. He was, as you know, the creator of net promoter. So those are a couple of important books.
Thank you very much. And what’s the best way to contact you.
So the best way to contact me is you can go to empowered and that’s with an IDI empowered cx.com. Or you can reach me at Mark Slatin. And that’s S L A T I N on LinkedIn, and love to connect and speak. Also, we mentioned at the top, the delighted customers podcast. That is a great way. And also, if you go to the website, there’s a experience maturity assessment that’s free. So if you want to see where you or your company or organization is now, you can go there as well.
Thank you very much, Mark. And now the real last question, it’s Mark’s golden nugget, it’s something that we discussed or something new that you would live to the audit.
I think I think one of the things that is going to be most important if you’re trying to enrich the lives of customers is Fred Reichheld has something he calls the miracle wheel. And that is the wheel, you know of your organization that that enriches the lives of customers and turns out customers that love you, they love your brand. And to me, we talked about this earlier, is have a roadmap have the discipline of having a roadmap of saying, you know, here’s where we are, because we’re always progressing, hopefully, we should be progressing. And then what’s the next right step and each one of these areas that we need to do. It’s just really important to have that discipline. And then just to go along with that perseverance, because it’s just, I’ve been told so many times when I was when I was at the bank, where I worked at, you have the hardest job in the organization. And I would probably argue with that, that the CEO and other executives have really tough jobs. But it is a really tough job. And I empathize with all the CX leaders out there who are making a go of it. Keep, keep pushing, keep persevering. You can and do make a difference in the lives of your customers.
Thank you. That was Mark’s golden nugget. I’m not allowing myself to comment that the only thing that I can say is thank you very much, Mark.
And thank you, Greg, so much for having me. I so appreciate it. You’re an awesome guy.
Thank you. Please, Mark, stay with me to the audience. It’s everything. We know that feedback is a gift. We are happy to get your feedback contact mark or contact me please feel free to contact us. Thank you very much. Have a nice evening. Bye bye. If you enjoyed this episode, please share the word of mouth. Subscribe it, share it until the next episode. Please don’t forget, we are not in a b2b or b2c business. You’re in a human to human environment. Thank you
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