Episode released on: 20. February 2023
Orchestrating Customer Experience in Business with Sergio Rossini – Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper
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The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Sergio Rossini
LinkedIn Headline: Sales, Marketing & CX Director presso Sagres ®
Highlights:
- 00:00 Game Start
- 00:36 Sergio’s Introduction
- 02:59 Sergio’s Value
- 04:18 The playing field of CX professionals
- 09:08 Executive Support – HowTo!
- 14:41 Getting Things Done on a strategic level
- 23:06 Listening To Customers and Their Emotions
- 31:22 The Future of CX
- 33:53 Book Suggestion
- 34:27 Contact Details
- 34:41 Golden Nugget
and much more
Guest’s Contact Details:
Guest’s Golden Nuggets:
- If you look around the solution to a problem is already there. So you have to learn, to observe and to listen to people around you, because you are not alone, you have not to invent everything. People around you have different views on things. And they can help you to have an holistic view and the good perspective on things sometimes can diminish problems. And perhaps this gives you the path to the solution.
“If you look around the solution to a problem is already there. So you have to learn, to observe and to listen to people around you, because you are not alone, you have not to invent everything.” Sergio Rossini on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast
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What did we discuss?
Gregorio Uglioni
Ladies and gentleman, welcome to the CX goalkeeper podcast your host, Greg will have smart discussions with friends, experts and thought leaders on customer experience transformation, and leadership. Please follow this podcast on your preferred platform. I’m sure you will enjoy the next episode with the guest I selected for you,
Ladies and gentlemen, tonight. It’s really a big, big pleasure because I’ve Sergio Rossini together with me. Hi Sergio, how are you?
Sergio Rossini
Hi, Greg, I’m fine. Or I would say Gregorio
Gregorio Uglioni
Greg is perfect. My mother would say Gregorio. Greg is perfect. Everybody knows me as Greg. Therefore, we can we can start from there. But today, it’s not about me today. It’s about you about Sergio, you have really a long international experience. And I am really thrilled and pleased that you accepted my invitation to the CX goalkeeper podcast. As usual, I asked our top player to introduce themselves, and therefore also to us. Sergio, could you please highlight your career?
Sergio Rossini
Okay, so I, let’s say that I’m an industrial engineer, and I started working in consultancy, two years about then I joined the corporate, the corporate world. And I had, I called a set of rules that are interesting, the first seeks because each of the steps I’ve done during my career is kind of a preparation for customer experience. So I started in quality management. And I was responsible already for customer satisfaction back for customer complaints and internal claims about spare parts and things like this. And then I was responsible for SAP project means ERP implementation. And that’s another perspective. And that changes the way we work, but also change the organization. So I am to supervisory change management. And then I worked in the field with the profit and loss responsibility as a regional manager. And that was eye opening. And then I was a sales and marketing are responsible to form the contact center, and the org strategy of sales. And then we’re at group level with a global responsibility about the customer. Excellent. So the career of my career is that I worked in staff come through level, then a work in the field and operations, and then work with staff at the global level. So these are different perspectives. And at the end, I entered the magic word of customer experience.
Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you, Sergio. I think this is really a broad and deep experience in customer experience. And perhaps, could you please help us and let us understand which values drive you in life?
Sergio Rossini
Okay, so I’ll say, welcome, trust. I will say that, in personal relationships, and in professional life as well, I think that trust is the most important thing. Because if you want to be the long term relationship, but you should drop them on, I’d say that life is a journey, and you have many obstacles, and you have many fights, and everything. But if you can find someone or, or something to trust, then it’s kind of a sort of a paradise, because you can be yourself. You are not what the sky makes of you. Because if you have to fly, then you have to act as a fiber. If you have an obstacle, then you have to think in terms of problems totally. But you can find someone that you trust, you can be yourself.
Gregorio Uglioni
I think trust is also the foundation of customer experience. And today I think that’s what we would like to discuss we are going to discuss about the role of the customer experience professionals. It’s get always bit complex more and more complex. If you need to be able to end on a lot of different topics and then super athletes super thrilled that we can discuss together with you Sergio with your international long lasting career in customer experience. And perhaps let’s really start you have a nice background, playing field a soccer field. What is the field on which customer experience professional are playing?
Sergio Rossini
I will say that it should be a strategic level. Okay. But unfortunately, sometimes, if not, that very much depends on the maturity of the organization you’re working with. Okay. So that’s one of the main point, I think in customer experience. During a, I was a customer experience, professional and you say, at country level at global level, I met hundreds of customer experience responsible with it today. And the point is, we’re actually in the year killed organization, and which is their background. And we chart their competitors and skills. These are key topics for me to be discussed in order to have a successful customer experience. Program or not, say programmer culture, I’d say also in the context. To me, what is very important is that sometimes when you talk to management, there is a kind of a gap between them. Words, the glossary, that customer experience, professional use, and what in the mind of management. So I think that, in a way, proper management is the customer, of a customer experience professional. So you should find ways to listen to them to learn about their needs, and bring them the solution. In order to do so you cannot improvise, you have to, you have to have a life in which you experienced something that you can share so that you can understand. That’s why it’s important for me, that among the key competitors, competitors, these are all the six profession, I will pull mainly multiples means you have, you need to have work in the trenches, and to get things done. And then I’ll put the spring green means that if you want to bring change in organization, that means that you need to have a solid reputation, and bring solutions to your teammates that have different targets and goals than you have. So my first suggestion is to help them to achieve their target. And then you will become useful for them, and then they will listen to you. And perhaps they will do something about the things that you are asking them. And the last thing is you need to have the heart of the customer and you have to sit organization with the eyes of the customer. And you need to be very empathic about your customer and be the partner of okay. So I will say that these things all together, give you a position that you can talk to managers, doesn’t matter. The lever can be a branch manager can be a CEO, doesn’t matter. But they have their own targets you need to know which are their targets. And you have to think I am business and not customer experience. I am business. And we all together want to achieve business targets. And I think that the best way to do so is to improve the customer experience. But you have to prove it.
Gregorio Uglioni
I think you’re touching a lot of really interesting topic and then let’s unpack them one after the other depending on how much time we have for this discussion. One thing it’s that you mentioned at the beginning is the importance of the top management, speaking their languages, their language and being part of this discussion explaining to them the importance of achieving business results and not something fluffy about customer experience and so on. In your experience, what’s the best way to get support approval and the resources required from top management.
Sergio Rossini
So first of all, we need to have the right background in order to talk there everything. They love numbers, numbers, whatever they want, you have to vote barreling. So my first advice is on the following. First never go to a management committee to present something without having worked with before, to gather with all the members of the Management Committee one by one. First of all, you go to one and you say, we have this problem, I have this idea in mind, let’s go create a solution. What’s your opinion, that is the first thing, and you have to do that with all the members. So that when you’re in the room, it’s already out. So, okay, need to get the binding, okay. And then you need to absolutely need to bring some results, or you have to have them making the right experiences before taking decisions. So for example, one thing that I made in my previous life, corporate environment was bringing all the Management Committee in the branches, and not in the headquarters. Okay, so we structure the day like this, the morning, every member of the Management Committee goes out with the salesman to meet customer. Okay, time to sell isn’t the complaint, normal customer, not, the account would be things normal, they have a sales rep. And each of these members of the Management Committee went out, then came back, and then we made a kind of debriefing, okay, there were also specific things to pass and so on. So the tasks, it was not like this, okay. And then we are back. And then they tell their experience. And then after that, we start talking business, and we have the Management Committee. Okay? Doing so they discover a lot of things. And also they show to the salesman, that they care about their life, they’re there to listen and to learn and not to give orders. Because involvement is easy. From time to time, you have to listen. And then after that, you can build on that experience in order to put on the table the right problem, and try to find a solution. So these kinds of things are important. And of course, you need to add a kind of business plan or investment. Hospital, okay. But what is really important is to create the background, and so to make them making the right experiences to talk about the topic before. And then when you are at the table is already prepared. Otherwise, you’re lost. You don’t want surprises in that moment, you want to get a yes, you want to get a go, okay. And in particular, among all the members of the Management Committee, there is one that is the CFO, that should become your friend. So is the guy you have to go to the coffee machine with is the guy or something like this, because you have to learn what’s important for him and talking having conversations, he will tell you in advance, which are these views that are different from the other ones that are very, I would say dry, and that’s why they go straight, the bind her up the CFO doesn’t know operations, but it looks like a certain number. And they are the same number that the CEO looks at the CFO and the CEO, they spend together a lot of time, much more than we do in our sales professional. So it’s very important for the CEO to move back to the door on the CFO. Okay, so I don’t know if I answered your question, Greg.
Gregorio Uglioni
It’s based on what you’re saying. It’s also in this field in this world. It’s about creating long lasting relationship, creating trust, as you mentioned at the beginning, and also leveraging the language of your of the customers. In this case, the board members, the CFO and so on. And as you are saying, it’s extremely important to pick in particular, the most important one, and as you said, is the CEO taking the decision, but CFO sitting on the budget, and therefore, it totally makes sense. And I think that’s, that’s, that’s the reality and extremely, extremely important. Therefore, it’s fully answered the question. And perhaps could you please elaborate also, on your second topic that you mentioned that I think it’s relevant for the audience is getting things done. You mentioned that at the beginning, that it’s one key task of CX professional to do things, but you said also, it should be a bit more strategic level, what’s your view? What are your thoughts on these topics?
Sergio Rossini
I make you too practical example of Intuit ID and so on just to the director or something else, okay. So, in a CX program, you listen to your customer, you highlight problems, you try to book problems and these kinds of things, okay, then you let the NPS or the C sat on the customer effort score, some indicators and so on. But telling your audience we have 10% detractors and want to have 9% detractors is not sexy, and doesn’t mean a thing okay. So, you have to think differently. So, how do you calculate that? So, first of all, you have for example, the churn rate, okay, the churn rate is euros is dollar is its money, so, they understand true, okay. So, what we have done, for example, is that we have created something called customer impact map, the customer feedback map was wise was having customer divided by operating revenue thresholds, for example, and the label the RS, the Trotter vaccine for motors or not survey, for example, okay. And this gives you immediately the perception of the amount of money that is at risk in the company. Because if you’re saying okay, we have some customers without their operating revenue overall is this number this number in that case? And when that number is high enough, you have the CEO asking for people doing things, okay. So, this is the one perspective and so, customer impact map was an attempt to put a value on the abstract percentages of promoters detractors, so, another thing that we have done is for example, the fact that the six books tell you that you make more money to promote this, for example, and less money, the properties, but then you check the numbers, it’s not always true. And then you have a problem, because you are saying we make more money with promoters back then you check route numbers that Oh, perhaps is not so clear the picture and so, what what is not written in the books that yes, you can make more money with promoters, if you do something, if you try to activate them, because it’s not by default, that you make more money with them. So, what we have done, we have labeled all customers with the concept of you can do that by earning revenue, but we have done more we have we have classified them by business potential. Okay, so not only the operating revenue because perhaps you have one very big customer but only in three months, the operating revenues poor that is not a poor customer. It’s very rich customer. So the potential is high. So let’s imagine that you have all your corporate by potential and you do like together with sales in other ways. And then that customer is the promoter gives right and that the right moment, doors open. He is there to listen to you. But you have to propose something. So we had in the past the core group using recommender system over the years Okay, let’s offer a solution, it’s all one problem, but doesn’t make you more of cross selling upselling is not there. So you have a high potential customer, if you have a 10 or a nine, you need to have a read ready at proposal for your customer, you are buying these from us, you are happy, do you know that we sell also this and this and that we can do this and that for you, but already prepared, so that you give a signal to your Salesforce, we send out automatic notification by system paying high potential customer promoter notification to the customer to the salesman action required to do that. Okay, so that you have a system, it’s not just your idea, which you think it’s nice to do that, but you have a system in order to do so. Okay. And then got to give another example of something that we needed to transform the idea, the notion of customer experience that everybody has in business, that in that particular market,or that we were working in you, your customers, but your customer, or there’s also some part of the business or your competitors. Okay, this does not happen always in all markets. But in that market, it was like this. We made that promoter system, how likely would you recommend my company from zero to 10? More importantly, why? Why even the score wire three wire nine that we will talk about that later perhaps about? That’s very important. And then we asked her Do you buy also from our competitors? Yes. Would you give a score to the competitor? Yes, look at the scope of the contract. Would you mind telling me the name of your contractor, somebody not doesn’t matter. It’s already gold for a salesman to know that you have a customer that is happy. And you have a customer that was with a competitor is 100 People competitor, it is goal for the salesman go there and try to take more business. The other way around is not happening to you is happy with the competitor, high risk, please do something. And this was in the system with the notification to the salesman. And asking customer has not before but how and so on. So these are just ideas to give solidity I don’t know and to talk the same language of business people, because otherwise
Gregorio Uglioni
it totally makes sense. It’s Thank you very much for these, these nuggets, because these are really tangible actions tangible framework that people the audience can use and can leverage to exploit the power of customer experience. And to transform that in real business. It means profit, or ensuring not not losing customer. We spoke a lot about internal ways of selling customer experience, improving the business, but you are also an expert. On listening to the customer. You mentioned something having the eyes of the customer listening listening to them. Could you please elaborate a bit on the role of listening to the customer and also putting together what we learn from them, which their emotions and so on?
Sergio Rossini
So, listen, but Kasparov, this is one of my favorite subjects. Okay, so let’s say that I would start with something you should not do that I see a walk around. So I work mainly in b2b business to business, so let’s speak there, because it is valid there. So I don’t think that making web surveys is a good idea. First of all, why because the response rate is from two to 5%. What does that mean? That means that all image is answering you. So the result is already biased that way, because I always am showing you the extremes that are very happy with are very happy and want to make compliments to someone they want to name my Greg was wonderful. Okay. So they want to say that so they will answer otherwise they will not say So the outcome of these kinds of surveys and create the misunderstandings can create strategic, wrong strategic choices is one. Another thing that I will not do is to torture the customers with the funding questions and the cost to do our journey and ask one question for us so that you are sure that you have exploited the whole journey. I challenge you to answer those fits in there. And the third question already tired, your pension level goes down, and you start providing that, whatever it is, and it’s not reliable. Okay, so it is wrong. And I’m not happy, but we can play a game together on that. Let’s imagine let’s imagine that we are talking about conventional seeds, okay, so that we have this compliment for me with all the characteristics of our product and service. And then we asked people, customers and they give scores. Okay, so let’s imagine for one moment that football player, okay, is a brand is a company providing service. So how do we rate at football player? Let’s take a player that you perhaps know Diego Armando Maradona. Okay, so we have development, but we are objective neutral? We don’t and we big scores. So let’s start. What about these vision of the game? How do you rate in zero to hero send?
Gregorio Uglioni
Ten
Sergio Rossini
Wonderful. There, Leslie is head shots. Okay. Was it good with the handle Maradona with the headshot?
Gregorio Uglioni
is more known for is more known for left foot? And therefore I would say seven?
Sergio Rossini
Okay, seven, let’s see the right. Give us
Gregorio Uglioni
nine. The right is he’s lefty. Yes, by state he was good. Also with the right, he was able to shoot with both he was playing most with the left. But we can say eight or seven.
Sergio Rossini
Okay, so we are just destroying again. Because my point was that the left foot is 10. But right foot is for us not food. Okay, let’s imagine for one moment that the right of Maradona is three or four. Okay. So now the point is the following. If we say that copper is always right, then we should have all the different aspects of our service. Good. Okay, so there is so this one has the right bit of Maradona, which is not too patient. So, if I am a six per patient, and I go to the Management Committee saying a we have a problem here, we have one thing that our couples, they don’t like it, okay, because it’s our is not sufficient. So we have to improve. So we have to make a plan, we have to invest money on the right to talk Maradona, because my wife was on the bench, and I have another guy that are only six or seven. We disparage, but he doesn’t create any problem. So let him play in arenas observe what what do I want to say? I want to say that improving Arabic always is simply wrong. What is important? Well, in other words, what is important for me is your brand fonts. Okay, so why do customers buy from you? Why do customer come to see the government over and over and not because of the right foot? vision of the game for his ability to use his left foot? Okay, and that’s good enough. It’s much more than okay. So investing in that craft is of the service that is not so important for Catholics is simply wrong. And this is the problem that we had with some seeds Petitioner who got the management committee asking for money to invest in something that is not good for business. Without us. It’s a waste of money. So we should give a look what’s important for our brand price, and that in other words is important for the customer. Why’d a customer came to me and go and buy from me, and we should put our money there. And we should remove resources from elsewhere in being fantastic on Sunday, because if you’re plastic on something customer will come back to you, because they will remember the experience, they still be memorable, because you do something that is exception that is a wonderful then they come back. But if you are average on everything, they will not come back, they will not remember this, they will go elsewhere. So apart or difference of views on the right foot of Maradona, I hope that you’ve got the message. Okay, so what is very important, that means that we have to take decisions, what’s important, what’s not important. If this is important, then we put money on it is not important to remove those pieces. And we put them where, where it is important for the customer. So the then I stopped I don’t remember anymore.
Gregorio Uglioni
No, that’s, that’s perfect. That’s perfect. Thank you very much. So, we are also coming to an end to an end of this discussion. We are over time the game is already finished, but I still have some question for you. And the last one on the content. And in 10 years from now, we are here back on the CX goalkeeper podcast what we are discussing about
Sergio Rossini
I think that we will discuss about customer science. Customer science for me is artificial intelligence plus data plus behavioral science means how customer make their decision. Okay, so you have to listen to them. But then you have to check on the calendar with data. And you have to use artificial intelligence, to elaborate and to think ahead in order to forecast the future. Okay, so I think that the FBN this cultural experience, game is a human game. So people are humans by the Commission, and they take decisions that are not always logical, but that are driven by emotion. So we have not enough time to develop this point, I have a fear, but these are what I what I see in the future that we should learn aboutcustomer silence.
Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you, Sergio, and remain about speaking about emotions and great experiences. I want you to remember to the audience that what Sergio is sharing with us it’s customer science. The first person I heard speaking about was call in show and he was on the CX goalkeeper podcast episode number 100. And we discussed about customer science. But now back to this great experience together with Sergio. We are in the extra time the last three minutes of the CX goalkeeper podcasts this game three quick question for you. Is there a book that you would like to suggest to the audience because it helped you during your career or during your life? Yes,
Sergio Rossini
there’s a book that I want to translate to the Italian whose name is things. SANGJOON LEE, and for me, it was an Hong Kong professor and he visited a provocative book. The the eye opener did not know knock conventional, it is fresh air, let’s say in the heart of the set. So you cannot agree with everything. But it makes you think
Gregorio Uglioni
thank you and I am quite sure that people would want to shoot to discuss with you wants to continue the discussion with you. What’s the best way to contact you?
Sergio Rossini
I think LinkedIn is now the preferred channel
Gregorio Uglioni
and their audience please follow Sergio because he’s sharing great articles great insight. I am also enjoy discussing and reading what Sergio is sharing there. And now we are coming to the last question is surges golden nugget. It’s something that we discussed or something new that you would like to leave to the audience,
Sergio Rossini
I have to say that in your personal life and your professional life as well, prehaps, if you look around the solution to a problem is already there. So if you have to learn, to observe and to listen to people around you, because you are not alone, you have not to invent everything. People around you have different views on things. And they can help you to have an holistic view. And the good perspective on things sometimes can diminish problems. And perhaps this gives you the path to the solution.
Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you very much, Sergio. The only thing that I can say is, it was really a great pleasure to have you on the CX goalkeeper podcast. Thank you. Thank you, Greg, and also to the audience. I hope that you enjoyed this discussion as much as I did. As you know, feedback is a gift. If you have any feedback, feel free to contact Sergio or to contact me for the audience. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure. Sergio, please stay with me. Ever nice day. Bye bye bye
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