Episode released on: 02. January 2023
A Complaint Is a Gift with Janelle Barlow – Customer Experience Goals with the CX Goalkeeper
The CX Goalkeeper had the great opportunity to interview Dr. Janelle Barlow
LinkedIn Headline: Founder, A Complaint Is a Gift
Highlights:
- 00:00 Game Start
- 01:18 Janelle’s career highlights
- 02:50 Janelle’s values
- 04:37 how do you define a complaint?
- 07:24 Legitimate complaints
- 10:30 Feedback
- 12:41 Reducing complaints to zero. does it make sense?
- 15:22 Skills required to handle complaints
- 17:30 Physical and digital complaints handling
- 25:55 The Future of Complaints
- 27:47 Janelle’s book suggestion
- 29:33 Janelle’s contact details
- 30:38 Janelle’s Golden Nugget
and much more
Guest’s Contact Details:
His book suggestion:
- Strategic customer service by John Goodman
- Branded customer service by Janelle Barlow
Guest’s Golden Nuggets:
- I think that word gift belongs on two sides. It’s not only a gift to get a complaint from the customer, because you get to find out what they want. And you get to know how to satisfy them. And they’re probably a loyal customer. There’s a lot of reasons why a complaint is a gift. They’re giving you a gift. You’re receiving this gift from them. But I think that also if customers began to think in terms of giving gifts now how do you give a gift to somebody, you don’t throw it at them, but you try to put some care and thought into it, why are you giving them this gift and to deliver it in that way? Instead of getting angry and then expecting the staff to work their hardest for you? They don’t they get upset as well. The second major reason why people say that they don’t complain is because they’re afraid that somebody will attack them. Well, the way to avoid that is just make sure that you’re giving the gift as well as the person who’s receiving it. I think that it works both sides. That’s my golden nugget.
The second major reason why people say that they don’t complain is because they’re afraid that somebody will attack them. (…) … Remember a Complaint Is a Gift for both parties involved. @JanelleBarlow on the CX Goalkeeper Podcast
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What we discussed?
Gregorio Uglioni
Ladies and gentleman, welcome to the CX goalkeeper podcast your host, Greg will have smart discussions with friends, experts and thought leaders on customer experience transformation and leadership. Please follow this podcast on your preferred platform. I am sure you will enjoy the next episode with the guest I selected for you.
Ladies and gentleman tonight. It’s really a great pleasure because I’ve Janelle Barlow together with me. Hi Janelle, how are you?
Janelle Barlow
Hi, I’m fine. How are you?
Gregorio Uglioni
Well, because I am super thrilled that we are going to discuss about complaints. A complaint is a gift. And this is also the book that you wrote. And really, thank you very much for your time accepting this invitation to participate to the CX goalkeeper podcast, and to discuss about your latest book. Thank you very much.
Janelle Barlow
Thank you, you know, this is the third edition of this book a complaint as a gift. So each book, I had the opportunity to rewrite it. My publisher said to me, Janelle just put a different forward in and a couple of different stories. And I couldn’t do that I thought, you know, somebody who likes this subject is going to want to want to read all three books. So I’ve, it’s each book has been different
Gregorio Uglioni
Oh, that’s really, really interesting. But before we start deep diving in your books, and we would like to learn about about you, perhaps could you please introduce yourself showing us or sharing with us the highlights of your career that got us into this topic?
Janelle Barlow
Well, yes, I didn’t actually get started in this topic until the middle 80s. But my work has always been corporate education, working with adults, and I was very much involved with customer service. And a piece of that was always complaint handling. And then I began to realize how big complaint handling is in the field of customer service. In fact, I have come to the conclusion that complaint handling and knowing how to do that is actually more important than customer service. And I’ll tell you why. Because I think if you can get the complaint handling down, that people then automatically know how to handle service better, and they’ll do that. But if you start with customer service, then here comes a complaint. And then you think a whole different set of behaviors have to be there. So focusing on complaint handling is understanding of what’s going on with this phenomenon of complaint handling. So that’s that’s I haven’t really written about that. But I want to I want to really make that point to people who are in customer service, start putting more emphasis on complaint handling.
Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you very much. It’s really interesting. And I think, if you really liked this topic, then you would you should add specific values that drives you in life, which values live your life?
Janelle Barlow
which values drive through my life. Yeah. For me, it’s it’s about behaviors, because I think you measure, you measure behaviors, or you measure your values by behaviors, I am an honest person, but I don’t necessarily think that honesty is always the best answer. I really don’t I mean, you know, we, we, we stop our statements, if we think that the honesty is going to hurt somebody else. So we’re not always honest. And I don’t expect other people to be as well. But my behavior, the behavior that really drives me is just do it. Just do it. And, and that’s what I do. That’s my style. If somebody asked me to do something, I don’t even think about whether or not I can do it, whether or not I’ve had the experience, I just do it, I figure I can figure it out. That’s always been my approach. Sometimes it gets me into trouble. But basically, it’s is the value by which I drive my life, just go ahead and try it move on and, and actually even move on faster today than we have in the past. I’m not so young anymore by any means. And so I I realized I don’t have that many years left. And I’m really trying to push through as quickly as I can with doing it with getting things done. As long as they’re valuable to other people. And they’ll let you know that I think I’m making the right decisions about my life.
Gregorio Uglioni
Oh, thank you very much. But I hope that you will have a lot of additional use because you are very young in your mindset and I think is really, really important. And the second thing thing that I really like is just do it and throughout your outstanding career. You’ve wrote three books, or three version of this book, and therefore I think it’s important now to deep dive into this book I a complaint is a gift, how to learn from critical feedback and recover customer loyalty. This is where thinking about the last version of your book. And I suggested to the audience if they are interested in this book to buy that and have a look at because this is a really interesting one. And now we are deep dive into pick some insight from from the book and to give some flavors of the book to the audience. And therefore the first question, how do you define a complaint?
Janelle Barlow
I have been working on getting a more and more simple definition of a complaint. And in my mind, a complaint is a statement of dissatisfaction. Saying something I’m not satisfied. I don’t like this. And that’s what a complaint is. Now, just recently, I was at a conference that my husband was keynoting. At. And in the, at the conference, I was sitting next to a man who said I don’t like the word complaint. When I told him what I did. He said, I don’t like the word complaint. He said, like, I like the word feedback. And I said, yeah, a lot of people say that. But let me suggest this feedback can be either positive, or negative. A complaint is always negative. Always, it’s always pointing out something that’s wrong, something that doesn’t satisfy me. But feedback could be good or bad. So I know people are afraid of this word. Let me tell you how afraid of this word they are. They don’t even like it in my book title. They I mean, they can’t quite grasp but of a complaint is a gift. They don’t quite get that. I have been in bookstores, signing copies of the book. And I’ve heard the announcement over the loudspeaker system saying Janelle Barlow is is in the building, signing her signing her book, a compliment is a gift. They can’t even say it that a complaint is a gift. I’ve heard that so many times. It’s it’s just hard for people to put those two words together. Yeah, that’s the heart of the argument.
Gregorio Uglioni
I think if a complaint is entered in the proper way, a complaint is ended in a proper way, then it can be complimented.
Janelle Barlow
Yes, it could be better. Certainly it’s a gift.
Gregorio Uglioni
Yeah, I think what what you’re saying it totally makes sense. But I think there are different types of complaints. And a very small number of people actually speak up about what are legitimate complaints. Why is that? Is that so? Well?
Janelle Barlow
Legit? I think when they say is it a legitimate complaint? They mean, was the customer wrong? Was the customer stupid? Or was the customer trying to to cheat you that those would be illegitimate complaints? If the customer comes in in their heart, and they’re trying to cheat you? i That’s a bad complaint. For sure. It’s it’s, it’s not a valid complaint, let’s put it that way. But I don’t know about putting the word legitimate there. If the customer says something, it’s, you know, it’s out of their experience. Maybe they’re paying you back for something that you did in the past to them. But I think that there are people who do cheat, if we, if we want to talk about that, for the moment, there are people who do cheat, there’s been research about that they estimate that at least in the United States, about 4% of the population will ever try to cheat. That’s it 4%. So all those customers who are calling all those customers who are coming in, most of them are honest, if they are not honest, it’s probably because they’ve made a mistake. I mean, it’s easy to make a mistake. And customers make mistakes, but so do the all the staff as well, they make mistakes, too. So there’s very few of them. But the interesting thing is, is that managers think that the percentage of cheaters is higher than the people who are actually interacting with those customers, which is really fascinating. Why should the managers think that there’s more cheaters out there?
Gregorio Uglioni
It’s really interesting, because at the end, it’s a human being interacting with a human being. And right there. It’s always trust basis on trust, how you handle something, if you agree if you don’t agree, and it makes it really interesting to really understand human behaviors. You spoke at the beginning about behaviors and this relation to human behaviors.
Janelle Barlow
Right? Right. That’s what it is. I mean, it’s human behaviors. I think some people there are some people who are a thief, so I mean, they’ll come in and steal. That’s not really a complaint. That’s an act of illegality to steal. But but people who are actually come in and say, you know, I’ve I bought this at this date, and they didn’t they bought it at another date. And I, you know, they’ll they’ll, or I just brought it home and then I it was sitting there and it just fell apart. Yeah. Right. But you just have to accept them that this is what happened,
Gregorio Uglioni
I think. Yes.
Janelle Barlow
No sense at all, to me makes no sense at all to say to them, you’re trying to cheat. I know, I know your type. I’ve seen your type around the makes no sense to do that.
Gregorio Uglioni
No, I think what you’re saying, make total sense. But let’s go back to the real normal complaints that we know in business. And I think often businesses are seeing complaints really, in a negative way. You already mentioned something about feedback. But could you please elaborate a bit on that?
Janelle Barlow
Yeah. Now, the, here’s what happens when you start thinking that complaints are negative, and that is that you want to stop them. You want to get rid of them. And that’s a huge mistake, and it can cause tremendous problems. I’ve met so many people who have said to me, you know, Janelle, I really like your idea of a complaint as a gift. I like that idea. However, what I really want is to get no complaints at all. That’s, that’s what they tell me. And I say to them, well, that’s what’s an interesting idea. Especially when you think that we don’t live in a perfect world. I mean, that’s, I don’t know, anything that is perfect. And so I tried to think of an example that relates to them. And a good example is like in hotels, where people have a complaint about the temperature of the water or the swimming pool, it’s too cold, or it’s too hot. Well, that’s a complaint. But some people like to swim longer distances. I’m a long distance swimmer, and I like that pool cool, cold, even. But somebody who’s who says, let’s go take a swim. And then what they really mean is let’s just go down and stand in the pool and talk with each other. And that’s what a lot of people’s deep swimming is. They want that water warmer. And you tell me how do you take a big swimming pool and get the temperature turned up or turned down depending on who’s swimming, and you just can’t do that. But what you can do is to talk with your staff and teach them how to talk with those customers, when these kinds of situations come up. The your business opens too early or too late in the morning for me, but you’re not going to change that is you just got to know how to talk about that with that customer. What they really are saying is that I want to do more business with you, you’re just not open at the right hours for me. So
Gregorio Uglioni
yes, I think what you’re saying it’s really interesting, because I am also seeing the difference between between Europe, Switzerland, in particular, and USA opening hours of shops. On your side, they’re always open on our site. It’s normally from eight in the morning, until six or now since two, three years, until eight in the evening. And then it they close. And therefore it’s also related to cultural aspects and so on. It’s not possible that there is no complaint, I think it would be fair to say to reduce complaints, and getting rid of the complaints that are always coming, but not really about all the possible complaint. Is that correct?
Janelle Barlow
Yeah. And it’s what many, when a company makes a decision that they want to reduce complaints or to get no complaints at all. Typically, this is how it gets communicated. Let’s say that in a hotel, somebody’s at the front desk, that somebody’s working there. And the manager says to them, I am sick and tired of hearing about this complaint. Well, that is a direct message to the staff to simply not tell their managers when those complaints come in, or to say, Well, that wasn’t really a complaint. That was just a question. It wasn’t really a complaint. You know, complaints come a lot in the form of questions. Why don’t you Why don’t you have this? Why don’t you do this? That’s a complaint. And so what they do is they cover up, they deny that a complaint is has been registered. I’ve actually seen this. Something happens in the hotel, I write out that little form, you know, how did I like the service, fill it out, take it down to the front desk, and they say I hope your stay here was a good one. And I say, Well, I had some problems. And here’s my response. Now I have turned around and walked away from the front desk to see the clerks tear up my comment. I’ve seen them literally tear it up. Now I know that what’s going on there is there’s a manager who maybe is paid a bonus for the few number of complaints they have. But if you think about the consequences of that, the consequences Is that you stop paying attention to whatever the customer is complaining about. That’s, they can drive the business. Bankrupt. I’ve been on managers, some managers have told me that that they were they’re very, very sorry that they put an emphasis on. I don’t want to hear about that anymore. Yeah, that doesn’t solve the problem. Unfortunately.
Gregorio Uglioni
Yes, and I think this is important. And this drives me also to the next questions. The example that that you shared was not a good complaint and link, and the people throwing away this, this this paper where you wrote your your feedback, was not the right was not skilled to handle complaints, which skills are required to enter complaints in a proper way.
Janelle Barlow
I think that there are a lot of emotional intelligence skills that are required that typically, we use think of the complaint handling as a transactional event between the person who’s listening to the complaint and and the complainer that’s, it’s a transaction between them. But it’s actually much more than that. It’s, it’s one of the most complicated human exchanges, emotional exchanges around. I have also, in addition to the book, a complaint is a gift. This year, I worked with a co author named Victoria Holtz. And we wrote a book of 101 exercises to teach people how to handle complaints, better 101 of them. Now, many of these are things that I am sure that if somebody looks at the book, because there’s, for example, there’s a chapter with a number of exercises on listening a chapter with a number of exercises on body language, on an ongoing empathy on all of these emotional intelligence skills. And people may say, but I already had a course on how to how to ask questions, what we’ve done is we’ve taken very specific kinds of things that need to be asked about, but related them exclusively to complaints. It’s not just about listening, it’s about listening to complaints. So there’s, there’s a lot of these different skills, body language is a huge one, the sound of the voice. Somebody rolls their eyes, you, you’ve got a problem their communication with that person.
Gregorio Uglioni
For sure, I think it’s really extremely interesting. And perhaps could you share also your view? If there is differences between ending complaints in a digital way in a physical? Well, because if it’s digital, then it’s difficult to really see, watch and understand the body language and so on. What’s your view on that?
Janelle Barlow
Yeah, you know, I can I just say this to right up front. And that is that there are so many applications now that are out there, I have a friend up in Canada, who’s developed a way to take what’s in an email, run it through her program, and it’ll tell you what’s going on with that person emotionally. Now, those kinds of applications are becoming more and more common. So we’re, we’re going to be able to handle these written complaints, these digital complaints a lot better. But if I can go into a little bit of detail on this, because there’s always been a lot of confusion about with digital complaints, I do think we’re going to be getting more and more of them. It’s just in the world that this is going to happen. But just recently, three professors at Harvard University did big data analysis, which is not what most complaint handling research is. Most complaint handling research is 500 customers, maybe 1000 is big. But what they did was they looked at 20 million. I mean, if you can imagine 20 million comments, positive and negative that were put on the for big. Who hotel application platforms like Expedia. I’m trying to think of ones you and Expedia? I don’t know there’s there’s several of them that are big in the United States. And I’m sure you’ve got your own names for them in Switzerland or in other parts of the world. And so they took these, these comments, and they analyze them, and they came to the conclusion that the way that we’ve been looking at handling written complaints is just not right. So I sent out to a number of people that I know this is, this was not 20 million comments, but I said to them, what do you think we should do? Handle the positive comments or handle the negative complaints first, because you got to do them in order right? That affects things And most of the people said to me, we should respond to the positive ones first. And what these people found these three professors found after looking at 20 million comments, and what the reactions were, is that it is better to respond to the negative comments first and to respond to them very specifically. So for example, if if somebody says, if they’re in a hotel, and they say, I didn’t like the bed And rule number 327, if you respond specifically, to concretely to that, and you’re I went up to that room, I sat down on the bed, and it was lumpy, just as you said, I mean, just to show them that you’ve really paid attention. And we are pulling the mattress out of that room and putting a new one yet. So very specific, the negative. Now you want to handle the negative ones first, because what happens on all these digital platforms is that something when something has been handled, it gets dropped down, and dropped down, and dropped down and dropped down. So that leaves more of the positive ones on the top. So when somebody looks at your hotel, they’re going to see mostly positive ones, because the negative ones have already been handled. So I’m it’s a very concrete piece of learning that a lot of people in the hotel industry simply don’t know about. The positive comments, they say this, is do something very fast and very generic, like yeah, oh, thank you so much for your comment, we appreciate it that you liked our hotel, and we hope to see you again. So it’s nothing concrete, you don’t talk about the salad that they bought at the restaurant that they like you just really glad you liked the stain in our hotel on the surface. But you pay attention to the negative ones. So now the positive ones are staying on top, the negative ones are dropping down to the second page, because you know, they only have so much space on the computer screen. So they’re dropping down dropping down. And what the people who are looking at those reviews because they do look like 87% of people today. We just don’t stay in hotels anymore without looking to see what everybody else has said. I mean, isn’t that your practice, just unless you know that brand of hotel, you want to check to see what everybody says. So what you you’re getting to see the more positive hotels, and that creates a mindset and the customer is going to be a good experience. And that’s that’s what happens, then also this they found out this is just in my mind is just so fascinating that we’re beginning to understand what’s happens with complaints online. And that is that if your numbers on if you do like five stars, five stars, and your numbers are at 4.4. And you can get that up to four, or even 4.4. If you can get it up, they’ll rounded up to five 4.5 for you. Which means that you now jumped up half a star. If your are below that, they’ll drop you down to 4.0 instead of 4.5. And the 4.5 hotels, get more bookings. So when people say to me, well, there’s nothing I can do about all these digital comments, yes, there is you actually can influence the algorithms on these big platforms that are all over the world now. And I think honestly, that that’s going to become even more important in the next number of years. I think it’s gonna happen.
Gregorio Uglioni
It’s so fascinating. It’s extremely interesting what what you’re saying. And I think this is a discipline or a science in itself to really understand not only our customer reacting to the complaints, but also our this platform are leveraging and using using the feedback and changing that it’s extremely interesting. Really, that’s, that’s really something that I never heard about. But it totally makes sense.
Janelle Barlow
Yeah. And one of the things that I do and my own keeping updated with what’s going on in the world of complaints is I use Google search so that I type in a number of words. And whenever those things appear, I get a daily listing of what’s showing up on the internet. And this morning, I saw one that was fascinating. It was about a public. Gov. I guess I I’m not sure what that means in England, but it was in the was in the UK, it was called public housing. But I don’t think that that’s necessarily welfare housing. I think it’s I don’t know exactly what that meant in the UK. But they said that what they’re finding was that the in the comments that were coming through about people who were living in these public housing was that there was more mold. And this was his YouTube explanation. So when I clicked onto that blade took me to YouTube, and it showed people All those houses and it showed the mold, and it was gross. Now, I think we’re gonna see more of that. And I bought this dress and it said this size, but it was way too tight. So I put it on and I let somebody see I can button it up. That’s much more concrete and effective complaining that other people will respond to than just saying the clothing was not sized properly. You just think about all those things that we need our ears, and we need our vision to really understand what the complaint is m since YouTube is used, or you could go on to any of these Tik Tok or any of these things, and take a look at them. And you’re going to get visual pictures of what the complaint is. And that can be very harmful. very harmful to a business’s reputation,
Gregorio Uglioni
That’s really extremely interesting. And we could chat about a complaint as a gift for hours. But now we’re coming towards the end of this game. But I still have some questions for you. We are let’s think in the future in 10 years from now, we are back on the CX goalkeeper podcast, super happy to have you what we are discussing about
Janelle Barlow
I think what we’re going to be talking about is more electronic complaints and how this is coming through on the internet. I just just as I explained, and I think that we’re gonna get visual pictures of it. I mean, we’ve all got our phones around. And we’re just going to be snapping pictures of of these things. And it so won’t be considered an intrusion for somebody to say, could you send me a picture a snapshot of that, so I can see what happened? No, I mean, I will voluntarily do it. Because it’s what I think we will all be doing, we will absolutely be communicating with video. And that you can’t you can’t deny what the video says. Or at least unless that person spent a lot of time changing the video, you can’t deny it. So it’s going to be much more powerful. Instead of just saying And that person was rude to me. I actually got my camera going taking a picture of this person being rude to me.
Gregorio Uglioni
Or a video and not only a picture.
Janelle Barlow
Thant’s what I meant. I meant a video. Yeah, you’re gonna see you’re gonna see videos about these things. And it’s gonna be dangerous. Yeah. And your fruit, your apples were rotten. So now I take my video out and I take it take a video of my camera, my smartphone out and I take pictures of the fruit with that smushy. And oh, that’s somebody looking at Eskenazi. I don’t want to go shop there.
Gregorio Uglioni
Yes, thank you very much. I hope that we really discuss about this topic, because it was really extremely interesting to speak about a complaint is a gift been 3rd version of the book that you wrote. Now we are in the extra time, the last three minutes of this game. And I think we get extra kicks. Exactly three, three questions for you. A part of the books that you wrote, is there a book that you would like to suggest to the audience that helped you in your career or during your life?
Janelle Barlow
Well, there’s there’s a lot of them and a lot of customer service books that have been very good. I really liked to see, I think I have one. Yeah, I like I like the work of this guy, John Goodman. He’s the one who did the original research on complaints. Now his books are pretty academic. But they’re worth looking at. And, and he’s been gathering lots and lots of I’ll hold it up a little bit longer promote his book, John Goodman, he was the one who did the original research back in the 1980s. And concluded that only about 4% of people will actually complain that research has stayed throughout this whole time. That’s influenced me. I wrote another book called branded customer service. And I think this relates to complaints. Because if you can say what branded customer services we promise, and we deliver and when you promise and you don’t deliver, that’s when you get complaints. So you know what, how does your mark how do your marketing messages line up with your service delivery or with whatever your delivery is? I think those kinds of books have. I have I mean, I’ve got a shelf shelves full of them. Actually,
Gregorio Uglioni
we can see that behind you. But for the people listening to the podcast, Janelle showed the book strategic customer service. And, and I think these are really interesting books. Thank you very much. The second last question is, where can people find you what’s the best way to contact you?
Janelle Barlow
The best way I think is just to go right to our webpage, which is very simple to get to www dot. A complaint is a gift name of the book. So if you can remember the name of the book, you can remember the web page, and then it’s a duck.com. And in there, it will lead you to other places to get more information. But that’s, that’s the most accessible place to get information. And the the books, of course, are available on Amazon. But I think that the, with the shipping to go to Europe, it’s very expensive. And I wouldn’t mind recommending that if you want a copy of the book, get the Kindle version, get the there is also a PDF version. So you get the same thing, but you don’t have to pay for shipping. Shipping is really costly these days.
Gregorio Uglioni
Yes. And I think in a period where Sustainability also an important topic is reading it on the Kindle or as a PDF, it’s really a great idea. Thank you very much for sharing this idea. Now we are coming to the end of this podcast, but I still have one question for you. It’s a generic golden nugget, it’s something that we discussed or something new that you would leave to the audience.
Janelle Barlow
Well, I think that word gift belongs on two sides, it’s, it’s not only a gift to get a complaint from the customer, because you get to find out what they want. And you get to know how to satisfy them. And they’re probably a loyal customer of their complaint. There’s a lot of reasons why a complaint is a gift. They’re giving you a gift. You’re receiving this gift from them. But I think that also if customers began to think in terms of giving gifts now how do you give a gift to somebody, you don’t throw it at them, but you try to put some care and thought into it, you know, why are you giving them this gift and to deliver it in that way? Instead of getting angry and then expecting the staff to work their hardest for you? They you know, they don’t they get upset as well. And and that Incidentally, I might just say is the second major reason why people say that they won’t complain is because they’re afraid that somebody will attack them. Well, the way to avoid that is just make sure that you’re giving the gift as well as the person who’s receiving it to know that they received the gift. I think that’s it’s worked on both sides. That’s my golden nugget.
Gregorio Uglioni
Thank you very much. The only thing that I can say is Janelle, thank you very much for your time. Well,
Janelle Barlow
thank you. Thank you. I really enjoyed this.
Gregorio Uglioni
Janelle, please stay with me to the audience. I hope that you enjoyed this discussion as much as I did, please stop by and buy the Kindle version or the PDF version of Janelle’s book. A complaint is a gift out to learn from critical feedback and recover customer loyalty. And this everything please share the feedback also with us with we with me or with Janelle to her webpage. And we are happy to get your feedback. Thank you very much and have a nice evening. Bye bye.
Janelle Barlow
Bye.
Gregorio Uglioni
If you enjoyed this episode, please share the word of mouth. Subscribe it, share it until the next episode. Please don’t forget, we are not in a b2b or b2c business. We are in a human to human environment. Thank you
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📹 as a Webcast you can subscribe it on YouTube
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THANK YOU SO MUCH! STAY TUNED FOR THE NEXT EPISODE!
THE CX GOALKEEPER 